Stoeger Coach Gun for HD? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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a_tack
01-30-2009, 14:09
Would it work? I am supposed to pick up my mossberg 500 perduader soon, but noticed a stoeger coach gun for the same price.... hmm... what to do, what to do...

Restless28
01-30-2009, 15:57
I don't think they are a bad choice. IMHO.

faawrenchbndr
01-30-2009, 16:19
I think it would be a great idea.
I would stash a few extra shells about the house.

a_tack
01-30-2009, 16:39
im seriously debating it. I'm not much into tacti-cool shotguns, I mean I like the mossberg and everything, but I really like the SxS stoeger too...

larry_minn
01-30-2009, 19:27
While I also kinda want a double barrel exposed hammer. While it would be nice the advantages of a pump outweigh the "fun factor" of a double barrel.
On a double you fire one rd you only have one left. You can NOT reload without taking it out of service. (on a pump you can fire one/pump and reload the shell fired with gun still in "action")

Apocalypse_Now
01-30-2009, 21:43
I love the old west guns, heck I'm on a kick collecting flintlocks and even lusting after a Scottish matchlock musket

But not for self defense.. why hamstring yourself with only two shots in the face of criminal scum?

Use a pump or semi auto. If you're not into tactical stuff, use a simple short barrel semi.. even 5 shots of that is a far cry from two shots

Dogbite
02-03-2009, 18:59
A double barrel can be very effective. I wouldn't be scared to rely on one. I would get a cheap shell holder for the stock, and practice, practice, practice.

New2GT
02-03-2009, 20:49
Ha, I was fondling one in Gander Mt last night wondering the same thing. The small size would make them great in close quarters.

I imagine in 12ga it would kick like a motherfer though. It would work, but IMO there are better options.

Waters47
02-03-2009, 21:18
I would definitely get the Mossberg. I have owned a Stoeger and they are just not that great. I would much rather have my Mossberg 590 with 8 buckshots ready to rock&roll than have just two.

Victoriagotagun
02-03-2009, 21:32
I have owned a Stoeger and they are just not that great. .

Why? :dunno:

Blitzer
02-03-2009, 21:34
The NRA stats on home intrusions indicate only one shot being fired during the fray. So why not? :supergrin: :cool:

I have one H&R single shot 12 ga with a side saddle affair on one side of the butt stock and three shells on the other hollowed out side of the Choate camp stock. And two Mossberg 500's with side saddles and one has a speed feed butt stock too. ;)

Ferdinandd
02-03-2009, 21:44
I didn't have the statistics, but I figured that most home invasions resulting in defensive use of a shotgun were fairly brief exchanges. As it turns out, the average number of shots fired is 1. While a double barrel has less fire-power than a pump or auto, it's twice what you'd need on average.

Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2009, 23:41
I didn't have the statistics, but I figured that most home invasions resulting in defensive use of a shotgun were fairly brief exchanges. As it turns out, the average number of shots fired is 1. While a double barrel has less fire-power than a pump or auto, it's twice what you'd need on average.

This makes no sense, whatsover.. you never know how many attackers or what firepower you will need. if anyone insists on a double barrel shotgun for HD, you had better have a higher cap major caliber handgun to back it up

Since a good 12 GA pump costs no more than a DB, I do not see the "logic" in a double barrel..

vafish
02-04-2009, 08:52
I didn't have the statistics, but I figured that most home invasions resulting in defensive use of a shotgun were fairly brief exchanges. As it turns out, the average number of shots fired is 1. While a double barrel has less fire-power than a pump or auto, it's twice what you'd need on average.


On an average day you won't need your gun at all so why have it?

I don't keep self defense guns loaded for average days, I keep them loaded for very exceptional days when everything goes wrong.

If a double barreled shotgun is all you have it will work pretty well for home defense.

If you are buying a gun for home defense, a pump action shotgun with an 18"-20" barrel holding 5-8 shots is a much better choice than a double barreled shotgun.

ccrobbins
02-04-2009, 15:30
I recently went through this very same question my self. I ended up getting a 500 mariner only because all of the coach gun or condor outbacks I could find had double triggers. For me that is a non issue but the wife needs as little as possible to muck up the works. She was very familiar with a pump and had no clue why a gun needs two triggers.....

.02, don't spend it all in one place!

gunsablazin
02-04-2009, 15:39
im seriously debating it. I'm not much into tacti-cool shotguns, I mean I like the mossberg and everything, but I really like the SxS stoeger too...

You answered your question, get the double, it will do its part if you do yours. The buttstock shellholder mentioned in a previous post would be a very good idea, along with practice. You should be plenty well armed.

DANGELO
02-04-2009, 15:52
Played with one back when I was on the west coast. Given normal 'property ranges' are less than 100ft where we were living, the thing was sweet with BB loadings, but was a bit ruff with 00 & 000 buck.

No matter what anyone says, you still have to aim ANY gun, and this gun had some interesting stock work making comfy aiming a bit odd, but we could hit a 2 Liter Soda bottle danglin from a branch over & over again w/out issue out to 50FT, no problem.

It was accurate, reliable, easy to load, and with a nylon side-saddle of 6 extra shells installed, a formidable solution to a home-defense situation. What's better, my wife CANNOT comfortably use my Winchester Tacti-Cool 12ga, cause of its LOP and over size.

She CAN easily employ the SxS's.

R/S in CT

Spiffums
02-04-2009, 17:19
I have one and a 870. The 870 is in the HD shotgun, the Dbl is ok for some member of the family who just doesn't want to shoot but it has an easier manual of arms.

paperairplane
02-04-2009, 22:26
I would absolutely use a double as an HD weapon. Short, simple, reliable.

I guess none of you have ever caught a finger in an 870 during reload... maybe I'm just clumsy.

Dusty45
02-05-2009, 01:15
But you miss the beauty of the side-by-side: if you only have one shot, give the bad guy BOTH BARRELS at once!!!

sheepman
02-05-2009, 04:36
Get the one you like and are most comfortable with. Its the operator not the tool that is most important. That said, the pump doses have advantages of more ammo. I would not feel unprotected with either. --Bill :wavey:

DanMartin
02-05-2009, 07:48
A side by side will work for HD. Is it effective? Only if you hit your target. A Lupara and a Glock 21 loaded with 230 grain FMJ-FP is a tough combination to beat.

Waters47
02-05-2009, 22:43
Why? :dunno:
Because there are only two shots, which I didn't like, And even worse mine didn't eject the empty shell casings which made reloads that much slower. Needless to say, I didn't own that gun for long. I think I only bought the thing in the first place because I watched Tombstone one too many times and I thought for sure I was someone's huckleberry. But I was wrong.

ElevatedThreat
02-08-2009, 20:06
If there are 2+n intruders in your house, and you eviscerate the first two through the bedroom door with close-range blasts of 00 buckshot, I'm betting the other n will not be pressing home the attack by scrambling over the bloody bodies of their fellows, but rather they will be retracing their steps in a hurry, looking for the exits.

I suppose it is possible that you could face a suicide charge from multiple determined attackers inside your bedroom, a la the movie "Zulu" -- but that seems pretty unlikely.

For the record, I have an 870 Police pump gun with an extended magazine. But I'd not feel helpless with a short 12 gauge break open double, and it certainly has a certain panache to it.

-ET

Dean
02-08-2009, 20:15
Would it work? I am supposed to pick up my mossberg 500 perduader soon, but noticed a stoeger coach gun for the same price.... hmm... what to do, what to do...

Would a double barreled shotgun "work" for home defense? Are you doped up, or something friend? HELL YES it'll work. Will it work? It'll blow a man clean in half, dang near!
The double is THE BEST home defense shotgun you can buy. It's silent. It's faster than ANY other shotgun. AND nobody I KNOW knows anybody - LEO or otherwise - who has fired more than TWO shotgun rounds in a gunfight.
YES, Virginia. A double barreled shotgun is very good protection for the home. It will work. Back it up with a Glock 30 .45 ACP. That'll work too. :drillsgt:

Dogbite
02-08-2009, 20:17
If there are 2+n intruders in your house, and you eviscerate the first two through the bedroom door with close-range blasts of 00 buckshot, I'm betting the other n will not be pressing home the attack by scrambling over the bloody bodies of their fellows, but rather they will be retracing their steps in a hurry, looking for the exits.

I suppose it is possible that you could face a suicide charge from multiple determined attackers inside your bedroom, a la the movie "Zulu" -- but that seems pretty unlikely.

For the record, I have an 870 Police pump gun with an extended magazine. But I'd not feel helpless with a short 12 gauge break open double, and it certainly has a certain panache to it.

-ET

Yeah, one does not read about many bad guys standing and fighting once a few of their party are decorating the nearest wall.

Dean
02-08-2009, 20:25
Because there are only two shots, which I didn't like, And even worse mine didn't eject the empty shell casings which made reloads that much slower. Needless to say, I didn't own that gun for long. I think I only bought the thing in the first place because I watched Tombstone one too many times and I thought for sure I was someone's huckleberry. But I was wrong.

You don't know how to fight with a shotgun, do you?
You sold the best home defense weapon you had.
That double barreled shotgun is an awesome weapon.
We should learn how to fight with the guns we have. :drillsgt:

a_tack
02-08-2009, 20:27
Would a double barreled shotgun "work" for home defense? Are you doped up, or something friend? HELL YES it'll work. Will it work? It'll blow a man clean in half, dang near!


I realize it will work. Would it be practical is what im getting at. Heck, i've got a single shot 12 ga. that'll "work" for home defense. Whichever shotgun I choose will be backed up by a handgun in whichever caliber I choose from my small arsenal.

I really like the look of the stoeger coach guns, it just seems that the mossberg will be more practical with the higher capacity. decisions... decisions.......

hmm, another question, do the stoegers eject the spent shells when they break open?

Victoriagotagun
02-08-2009, 20:50
hmm, another question, do the stoegers eject the spent shells when they break open?

No, they don't have ejectors.

a_tack
02-08-2009, 20:52
No, they don't have ejectors.

That probably made up my mind. My single shot shotguns all eject spent shells... I dont wanna be fumbling to manually extract a shotshell...

Victoriagotagun
02-08-2009, 20:54
That probably made up my mind. My single shot shotguns all eject spent shells... I dont wanna be fumbling to manually extract a shotshell...

If the chambers are smooth enough its easy to get the spent shells out. Watch some CAS videos and watch how they do it.

BreakFree
02-10-2009, 04:22
Would a double barreled shotgun "work" for home defense? Are you doped up, or something friend? HELL YES it'll work. Will it work? It'll blow a man clean in half, dang near!
The double is THE BEST home defense shotgun you can buy. It's silent. It's faster than ANY other shotgun. AND nobody I KNOW knows anybody - LEO or otherwise - who has fired more than TWO shotgun rounds in a gunfight.
YES, Virginia. A double barreled shotgun is very good protection for the home. It will work. Back it up with a Glock 30 .45 ACP. That'll work too. :drillsgt:

Great points. The ease of maintenance is also a major plus. Less moving parts = far less that can go wrong, no disassembly to speak of, etc, etc.

vafish
02-10-2009, 09:34
AND nobody I KNOW knows anybody - LEO or otherwise - who has fired more than TWO shotgun rounds in a gunfight.


Man shoots pit bull 7 times with shotgun

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/article/20090115/CRIME/911150306


Fuming wife admits shooting husband 4 times with shotgun

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_091007_news_woman_shoots_husband_.be8e0c7c.html

ccrobbins
02-10-2009, 09:59
Birdshot? It also sounds like neither one of those folks was fluent with a shotty.....The first guy was a maroon and the lady was pissed, she had to go back to the shed to reload. I would love to know if buckshot was used or just plain ol #6.........

silentpoet
02-10-2009, 11:32
If you have the willpower to use it any tool will work. A double is a lot better than a sharp stick. I read somewhere that more people in the old west were killed by single shot shotguns, I don't know if that is true or if I recall the quote right, but it illustrates it can be deadly. A double is a fine weapon, for many decades it was a preferred weapon of detectives.

Zombie Steve
02-10-2009, 16:19
I have a few pump shotguns (500, 590a1, and an 870 express) and a Stoeger coach gun.

Don't let the fact that the shells don't eject stop you. They come out easily with a quick jerk backwards (still shouldered).

-The coach gun's first two shots will be quicker (just pull the other trigger).
-First shot malfunction (dud) is quicker to recover from (just pull the other trigger).
-The coach removes the potential for some shooter error (short stroking) in a stressful situation.
-The coach gun, even though barrel length is longer, is considerably shorter overall (no receiver for feeding).
-Nothing swings like a double. Overall a better feel, and points more naturally (JMHO).

In addition to lower capacity, a downside is the coach gun has an automatic safety that engages when you open the gun. You either have to disable it or get used to switching it off every time you close the breech.

While I keep the Mossberg ready for home defense, I wouldn't feel undergunned with a coach gun at all.

The bottom line is this - both platforms have their quirks. You have to train a lot with either gun. Get whichever shotgun you think is coolest. You'll be more likely to practice with it.

DHart
04-27-2010, 01:22
Stoeger Coach Guns are awesome weapons. But to make them all that they can be you should have a good gunsmith slick up the action (so they open really easily and smoothly), polish the chambers (so the hulls will fly out of there with just a jerk back of the gun), and disable the "auto on" feature of the safety so you can decide when the safety goes on and stays off. These are cheap and easy mods to have done to make the Stoeger Coach Gun the best it can be.

A good Cowboy Action (CAS) shooter can clearly demonstrate how quickly, easily and well a Coach Gun can be employed.

Yes, my primary defense shotgun at home is a Mossberg 590 with 8 rounds of 00 Buck. But I also have a slicked up Stoeger Coach Gun close at hand.

BUT, when traveling, the 590 is way too much gun (size-wise) for me to comfortably bring along, however, a Coach Gun breaks down in about 2 seconds to a very small and very easily transported package.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/StoegerCoachGun.jpg

Broken down, a Coach Gun can nestle under the seat of a car, travel in a small suitcase, backpack, etc. That's one of it's GREATEST virtues. Extremely travel friendly.

On a recent trip out of town, my wife and I brought the Coach Gun (along with G30 and G26) and when we were in our hotel room for the night, I pulled the Coach Gun out of our small suitcase, put it together (takes 2 seconds!), popped in some 12 ga. 00 delight and knew that if by some remote chance fluke some serious trouble should come our way in that hotel room and that distant place, the 12 gauge could play a vitally pivotal role in our defense. I certainly didn't expect to NEED it, but it was reassuring to have it along anyway, just in case.

DaGroaner
04-27-2010, 10:18
I sold off a Rossi Coachgun 20 years ago and am still kicking myself for parting with it. I like them but if my life depended on it I'd rather have a pump or a semi.

DHart
04-27-2010, 14:17
I sold off a Rossi Coachgun 20 years ago and am still kicking myself for parting with it. I like them but if my life depended on it I'd rather have a pump or a semi.

Yes, if you have the choice (like at home, etc.), grab the pump.

But on occasions where the pump isn't practical to take along, it's better to have the Coach Gun and a side arm than just the side arm! :cool: Ideally, one would have both the pump and the Coach Gun and choose which ever one fits the particular situation better. Best of both worlds.

ScrappyDoo
04-27-2010, 15:47
It goes boom same as a dare I say snub nose 38 or a 380 walther ppk or a 12 gauge mossberg. You use what you have to when you have to, or even what you have cause that's what ya got. I personally feel it's much more of a luxury or showpiece than an actual HD solution , but only my don't-know-sheeit-about-sheeeit opinion and YMMv.

DHart
04-27-2010, 16:46
It goes boom same as a dare I say snub nose 38 or a 380 walther ppk or a 12 gauge mossberg. You use what you have to when you have to, or even what you have cause that's what ya got. I personally feel it's much more of a luxury or showpiece than an actual HD solution , but only my don't-know-sheeit-about-sheeeit opinion and YMMv.

Yes, the Coach Gun is a luxury to have in addition to a good pump like the Mossberg 500 or 590. But a nice one to have for those times when the pump just isn't practical/possible. Coach Gun goes on pretty much every road trip even if just for a day or two... in take-down mode it's just so easy to take along.

tx787
04-29-2010, 00:02
Ever since seeing Zombieland I want one. I also want an MP7 but that can't happen.

Animal Mother
05-01-2010, 05:21
Ever since seeing Zombieland I want one. I also want an MP7 but that can't happen.Zombieland? What about Army of Darkness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5iTpleCndo

NRA_guy
05-01-2010, 06:15
I didn't have the statistics, but I figured that most home invasions resulting in defensive use of a shotgun were fairly brief exchanges. As it turns out, the average number of shots fired is 1. While a double barrel has less fire-power than a pump or auto, it's twice what you'd need on average.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Mark Twain

Be careful with averages.

If there are 10 break-ins, and 9 homeowners shoot 0 times, but 1 homeowner shots 10 times, you have yourself a 1 shot per break-in average.

PS: I have been wanting a Stoeger coach supreme (nickle plated with chokes). Not sure what I would use it for---but since when does "need" have anything to do with buying guns?

DHart
05-01-2010, 09:50
I have been wanting a Stoeger coach supreme (nickle plated with chokes). Not sure what I would use it for---but since when does "need" have anything to do with buying guns?

Use it in addition to your other shotguns as another loaded resource if needed. Also, they are perfect for traveling as a motel gun.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/CoachGunTakenDown.jpg

8 or 9 .30 caliber pellets at 1150-1350 fps with one trigger pull. A lot faster than a machine gun! ;)

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/IMG_3595.jpg

Dogbite
07-03-2010, 18:54
Yes, the Coach Gun is a luxury to have in addition to a good pump like the Mossberg 500 or 590. But a nice one to have for those times when the pump just isn't practical/possible. Coach Gun goes on pretty much every road trip even if just for a day or two... in take-down mode it's just so easy to take along.

Thanks for sharing the briefcase idea for travel, thats pretty cool. Might have to get one just for that!

CharlestonG26
07-03-2010, 19:11
Putting "emotion" aside...ask yourself why the pump shotgun displaced the SxS in almost all professional applications.

DHart
07-03-2010, 22:19
Putting "emotion" aside...ask yourself why the pump shotgun displaced the SxS in almost all professional applications.

I would think most of us know the answer to that question. And most of us don't use weapons in a professional capacity either. I can only speak for myself, as an average joe citizen who lives a honest life in a relatively safe environment.

If my job was to go where the bad guys go and chase down the bad guys, I would arm myself quite differently than I might when, as an average guy, I'm sitting in my family room watching TV on a typical night, or when traveling and settling in for the night in a motel. In such a situation, I'm comfortable with a pistol and a shotgun... even when the shotgun is a double rather than a pump.

I choose to use a pump when a pump is practical to have at hand. But choosing a double doesn't mean it can't be extremely effective and very decisive. Doubles have defended a lot of people quite well for well over 100 years.

I don't see the double as a replacement for a pump, nor the other way around. They each have their applicability, advantages, and disadvantages.

I like having both.

Darkangel1846
07-04-2010, 10:11
Would it work? I am supposed to pick up my mossberg 500 perduader soon, but noticed a stoeger coach gun for the same price.... hmm... what to do, what to do...

Well I have the stoeger 20 guage I keep in my office with 6 rounds of OO Buck. it quite effective at close range, 20-30 yards. It is a little slow to reload though.:wavey:

JFrame
07-04-2010, 10:43
Would it work? I am supposed to pick up my mossberg 500 perduader soon, but noticed a stoeger coach gun for the same price.... hmm... what to do, what to do...

im seriously debating it. I'm not much into tacti-cool shotguns, I mean I like the mossberg and everything, but I really like the SxS stoeger too...


I was faced with the same quandary you were a few months ago. After some three decades of firearm ownership, I finally decided my inventory needed a 12-gauge shotgun.

The pump shotgun seemed more generally practical to me, but I found the thought of a side-by-side more aesthetically pleasing. I'm more of a retro type (preferring a revolver to a semiauto for primary HD, etc.), and the SxS would have satisfied that itch.

Ultimately, I let budget rule on my first purchase. I picked up a NEF Pardner pump for $189 at Dick's. After thoroughly and repeatedly oiling down the shotgun, and after repeated rackings of the slide to smooth the action, I "got" the appeal of the pump. :)

Since then, I've acquired a Mossy 500 Mariner, equipped it with a SpecOps stock, and feel set for the moment in this category. This is not to discount the possibility of a good SxS sometime down the road... :)

.

CharlestonG26
07-04-2010, 13:36
I don't see the double as a replacement for a pump, nor the other way around. They each have their applicability, advantages, and disadvantages..

With exception for breaking down into a fairly compact package, I'd appreciate your insight into what other "advantages" a SxS double would have over a pump.

DHart
07-04-2010, 14:45
With exception for breaking down into a fairly compact package, I'd appreciate your insight into what other "advantages" a SxS double would have over a pump.

That's easy.

1) Don't discount the very quick and small take-down size. For travel, that is one of it's greatest attributes!

2) Handling. Spend some time handling, swinging, shooting a Coach Gun in close quarters. You will find that it handles much better than a pump in this regard. VERY quick and easy swinging and handling.

3) Reliability... there is no pumping, auto-cycling, manipulation, extraction, ejection, or feeding required to fire two rounds of buck shot. To fire a second round, the pump relies on proper pumping manipulation (no short stroking), proper extraction, proper ejection, proper feeding in the tube, proper spring pressure to feed shells, proper chambering. (I'm not saying pumps are unreliable by any means... they just require a lot more to go well to be reliable.)

4) Speed. You can fire two rounds of 00 Buck nearly instantly (or simultaneously if you really want to) with no manipulation other than pulling the triggers. With two quick pulls of the trigger, in about 1/2 second, you can launch EIGHTEEN .33 caliber pellets at 1325 FPS in a nice tight pattern quite reliably. At home defense distances this would likely be devastatingly effective. It's the equivalent of an 18 round burst from a 9mm machine gun. Similar to emptying a fully loaded Glock 17 with two quick trigger pulls.

5) Simplicity. I can hand the double to anyone and they can fire it reliably with the simple instruction of "pull the triggers".

6) Maintenance. Cleaning and maintaining a coach gun is about as simple as it gets.

7) Compact size. Due to the absence of a receiver, the coach gun, even with a 20" barrel is very compact. Cut the barrels to 18" and use a youth length stock and you've got a remarkably compact and very controllable 00 Buck launcher. Sweet!

There are a lot of advantages to this gun. And, of course, disadvantages as well. This is no different than any gun design that you might consider. Every weapon you can name has advantages and disadvantages. Every weapon you can name is well suited to some applications and situations and not so much so for other applications and situations. This is why there are so many different weapon designs and sizes and calibers and people have so many different guns. Different strokes for different folks in different situations. Ask Clint Smith if he thinks a double can make a great HD gun. You'll get a resoundng YES. Is it the perfect shotgun choice? Of course not... no gun can lay claim in that title.

Is the pump the best choice for defense? Maybe. Maybe not. Consider that some experts actually recommend a semi-auto over the pump for defense because it can be fired so quickly with no manipulation for cycling and no potential for short-stroking. But is the semi-auto so perfect? Not really. It has some advantages. And it has disadvantages. There is no perfect choice for all situations.

If I were in law enforcement going after bad guys, a double would not be my first choice of shotguns. And it's not my first choice as an ordinary citizen either. But this isn't a discussion about arming law enforcement officers. And my defense use of firearms is as a law abiding, honest average citizen... not chasing bad guys.

For the average homeowner, one or two well placed loads of 00 Buck is quite likely to bring a confrontation to a rapid halt. And a Coach Gun can do that job magnificently, in addition to it's many other attributes. I like having pumps and doubles and would encourage anyone wanting a shotgun for HD to consider and have both designs. I also believe in backup/alternate guns. If you want a shotgun for HD, buy two or three.

I love my pumps and I love my Coach Guns!

CharlestonG26
07-05-2010, 10:21
Yes...SxS doubles break down into a compact package. SxS doubles are even more acceptable in some jurisdictions that impose restrictions on certain forms of firearms (e.g., pump shotguns with pistol grips in Rochester, NY).

However, I believe that most advocates of SxS doubles for SD/HD (if found in a rare moment of true honesty) would admit that thier support for this out-dated firearm is based largely on emotional factors rather than an informed opinion gained from experience.

Perhaps the appeal is the result of excessive exposure to tv westerns and cowboy movies during formative years. Perhaps the love for a coach gun comes from an association with the jingle, jangle of spurs and a big hat.

Whatever the reason...a modern 12 gauge pump shotgun is, by far, a better weapon for a wider range of defensive situations.

If given the choice between a pump or SxS double...I'll wager that Clint Smith would take the pump. BTW...I also understand that Clint Smith advocates the use a fire extinguisher for SD. This is part of his "hit them with anything that hurts" training.

DHart
07-05-2010, 13:37
most advocates of SxS doubles for SD/HD (if found in a rare moment of true honesty) would admit that thier support for this out-dated firearm is based largely on emotional factors rather than an informed opinion gained from experience.

Perhaps the appeal is the result of excessive exposure to tv westerns and cowboy movies during formative years. Perhaps the love for a coach gun comes from an association with the jingle, jangle of spurs and a big hat.

Offensive and insulting comments, Charleston.

Perhaps you haven't read my posts. No one said a double is a "better" choice than a pump. They're both effective weapons. Each with pros and cons. I choose the pump when it's practical and at hand (typically when I'm at home) because of greater capacity. And I'm glad to have a double (which I take when I travel along with a pistol or two), if it is what's at hand. If I could only have one shotgun, it would be a pump. But I'm fortunate to have a variety of weapons to choose from depending on situation. That's all. Pretty simple stuff that doesn't require much "psycho-analysis".

I wonder if the feeling of inadequacy of using doubles might be some sort of psychological lack due to childhood trauma of not being allowed to watch western TV shows... ? haha! ;) Just funnin' ya!

No doubt Clint would prefer an 870 to a double if he had the choice, but he'd be happy to use a double if it was what he had on hand and would no doubt use it well. Let's not forget that the double barrel shotgun is a very effective weapon and has been decisive as such for well over 100 years.

I advocate for pumps.... got six of them and just two sxs shotguns. If you can only have one shotgun, and you can physically handle the pump proficiently, get a pump. But don't fool yourself into thinking that the coach gun can't be an effective weapon. For some people, and/or under some circumstances, the coach gun can easily be the best defensive shotgun choice. There are no absolutes when it comes to firearms choices.

CharlestonG26
07-05-2010, 18:40
Offensive and insulting comments, Charleston.
No doubt Clint would prefer an 870 to a double if he had the choice, but he'd be happy to use a double if it was what he had on hand and would no doubt use it well. Let's not forget that the double barrel shotgun is a very effective weapon and has been decisive as such for well over 100 years.

I certainly didn't intend to be offensive or insulting. This thread, however, seems to put far more luster on the attributes of the SxS double for defensive use than it deserves. My intent is to put a more objective perspective on where the SxS double fits in the hierarchy of defensive weapons.

Just because people have been killing people with butcher knives for well over 100 years doesn't mean that they are a good weapon of choice. Same is true for SxS doubles. Yes...they'll do in a pinch. But...that's what planning is intended to prevent.

DHart
07-05-2010, 18:48
That's your view. And you're entitled to it. :yawn:

Fact remains that the double is still a very effective defense tool, even if it wouldn't be my choice for invading armies of raving zombies. :rofl:

In serious trouble I, as most people, would prefer six rounds before a reload to two. But for some folks, a double makes a perfectly adequate defense gun if they know how to use it.

CharlestonG26
07-05-2010, 19:16
Would it work? I am supposed to pick up my mossberg 500 perduader soon, but noticed a stoeger coach gun for the same price.... hmm... what to do, what to do...

Here's what the OP is about...the choice between a Mossberg 500 pump and a Stoeger Coach Gun.

Even Clint Smith would tell the OP to pick the pump :dunno:

DHart
07-05-2010, 20:47
Funny... too bad you didn't chime in right off the bat so this thread could have been closed with just your input. :wow: :supergrin:

Perhaps you know more than any of the rest of us do about this individual's particular needs. At least because of the rest of us, he has much more to think about and understands the benefits of various options. He may decide he would like the choice of having both to use, as he deems appropriate. For whatever physical reason, he may not be able to run a pump easily or reliably... not everyone can. We don't know that do we?

While we all agree that the pump might be the better choice for him, without knowing his particular circumstances, he really needs to make that determination for himself after exploring all the various factors to consider. And if he indeed feels more comfortable with the choice of the coach gun, that's not a bad option, regardless of what you think about it. Just because the pump is a better choice under some circumstances and/or for some people doesn't mean the double isn't the right choice for others. Clint would tell you this same thing. Watch and learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw

CharlestonG26
07-06-2010, 10:13
Watch and learn.

Thanks for posting the video. I watched and saw what I already knew...Clint Smith was more awkward with the SxS double than any of the other shotguns. He was even smoother with the single shot. (FWIW, his technique for ejecting shells from the SxS double is far from 100%.)

The main point of his video was (with proper training) you don't need an expensive gun for defense. However, he didn't say that they were all equal.

When the price is the same...I seriously doubt that any knowledgable person would choose a SxS double over a decent pump for serious defensive work.

But...people will buy just about anything. There are folks who even think the "tactical rail" on a SxS double is a good idea. :rofl:

DHart
07-06-2010, 11:10
The main point of his video was (with proper training) you don't need an expensive gun for defense. However, he didn't say that they were all equal.

That's the point, my friend, some guns can be better than others for some people under some circumstances. None of them are better in all respects than something else.

When the price is the same...I seriously doubt that any knowledgable person would choose a SxS double over a decent pump for serious defensive work.

You still don't get it! We all agree throughout this entire thread that in many circumstances a pump is an excellent choice. Where are you not seeing this? Please re-read this thread. You are blindsiding yourself and turning this thread into a waste of bandwidth!

And yet again, you fail to recognize that the pump is not for everyone! You're simply trying to paint the rest of the world with your favorite color. And this has become really boring. :whistling:

CharlestonG26
07-06-2010, 21:09
We all agree throughout this entire thread that in virtually every circumstance a pump is an better choice.

Knowing that you were, obviously, a bit stressed and not thinking clearly :rofl: I made a couple of minor adjustments to your post for better clarity and accuracy.

BTW...you might want to seek professional help for your anger issue and desire to have the last word. :whistling:

DHart
07-06-2010, 21:34
This has been a fun banter, but at this point, my apologies to the members here for this absurd diversion. :upeyes: It's quite obvious what's going on here.

bob_fuller
07-10-2010, 23:03
On an average day you won't need your gun at all so why have it?

I don't keep self defense guns loaded for average days, I keep them loaded for very exceptional days when everything goes wrong.

If a double barreled shotgun is all you have it will work pretty well for home defense.

If you are buying a gun for home defense, a pump action shotgun with an 18"-20" barrel holding 5-8 shots is a much better choice than a double barreled shotgun.

this sums it up pretty well. nothing wrong with sxs's, but if you have the option a pump is much better. in most cases a pump will be cheaper and of better quality as well.

DHart
07-11-2010, 19:20
this sums it up pretty well. nothing wrong with sxs's, but if you have the option a pump is much better.

Yep, I agree. My pumps are my primary go-to shotguns. But I advocate for pumps only as long as one is capable of running a pump properly. And except for those people who can't or won't practice shooting the shotgun enough to make sure they won't short shuck it when they need it most. And those who through age don't possess the strength to run a pump reliably. Or those who may have a physical disability, or the strong use of only one arm, etc. In those cases, those people would be better off using a double or, again if they can be competent enough to know well and practice the workings and clearing, of a semi-auto.

A number of top trainers advocate for semi-autos over pumps for those people who have difficulty running a pump reliably.... short-shucking of pumps being a more common problem than one might think during training programs where firing under stress brings out the gremlins.

And there are those folks for whom pumps and semi-autos are simply more complicated than they can or want to deal with... for them a good double makes a simple and powerfully effective defense tool, especially along with a good pistol.

JFrame
07-11-2010, 19:35
Yep, I agree. As long as you are capable of running a pump properly. And except for those people who can't or won't practice shooting the shotgun enough to make sure they won't short shuck it when they need it most. And those who through age don't possess the strength to run a pump reliably. Or those who may have a physical disability, or the strong use of only one arm, etc. In those cases, those people would be better off using a double or, again if they can be competent enough to know well and practice the workings and clearing, of a semi-auto.


That reminds me of the Mr. Potts character played by James Coburn in the movie "Major Dundee." He was a scout for the U.S. cavalry who only had one arm. IIRC, Mr. Potts carried a short, double-barreled shotgun strapped to his hip. I guess he figured he wasn't going to be doing any quick reloading anyway, and might as well have two huge blasts for his only shots.

.

DHart
07-11-2010, 19:40
That reminds me of the Mr. Potts character played by James Coburn in the movie "Major Dundee." He was a scout for the U.S. cavalry who only had one arm. IIRC, Mr. Potts carried a short, double-barreled shotgun strapped to his hip. I guess he figured he wasn't going to be doing any quick reloading anyway, and might as well have two huge blasts for his only shots.

.

Sounds like an interesting movie... I'll have to check that out.

For the average joe, or jane, two huge blasts are a heck of a lot better than none, and may well be all that's needed. ;)

JFrame
07-11-2010, 20:15
Sounds like an interesting movie... I'll have to check that out.

Hey -- it stars our favorite president, Charlton Heston...You can't do any better than that! :supergrin:

.

Mainer
07-18-2010, 20:05
Yes, a sxs shotgun certainly will work for home defense.

My brother purchased a vacation "retreat" on acreage in a remote, mountainous area of Maine. The property is an abandoned government fish hatchery. Unfortunately, a felon from out of state decided to build himself a ramshacle cabin across the road from my brother's property. To make matters worse, the felon couldn't manage to keep himself off of my brother's property.

My brother has a wife and three young children. They would show up at their vacation retreat for a weekend of snowshoeing, x-county skiing, and snowmobiling and find their property chriscrossed with footprints, many of them around the vacation house itself. There is no municipal police department to rely on for protection in this particular area.

Neither my brother nor his wife are "gun people." I was concerned for the wellbeing of my brother and his family, so I purchased him a 20 gauge coach gun for protection at his vacation home. The reason is that it is simple to operate, intimidating in appearance, and potent on the receiving end.

I am a gun person, and I have shortstroked pump shotguns on more than one occassion. At a 3 gun shoot earlier this month at the local fish and game club, one of the participants was "shut down" when a fired shell stuck in the chamber of his pump 12 gauge. A single stuck shell wouldn't shut down a sxs.

If I were serving warrants on violent felons or clearing buildings in a war zone, I would feel better served by a pump 12 gauge. For most home defense situations, I think a sxs is better because of its simple operation. In my particular case (in rural but not remote Maine), a 20 guage sxs would be perfect because my wife could handle it with ease while a 12 guage is too much gun for her and she is not be willing to become proficient with a pump.

With a sxs, if the bad guys show up, drop in buckshot and you're good to go. If a rabid animinal shows up in the back yard, drop in large bird shot or buckshot (as appropriate), and you're good to go.

My 2 cents' worth.

FA5Si
07-18-2010, 20:32
Has your brother reported these trespasses to the local sheriff? If he hasn't broken in and stolen anything, my guess is he's poaching.

DHart
07-18-2010, 20:43
Yes, a sxs shotgun certainly will work for home defense.

Neither my brother nor his wife are "gun people." I was concerned for the well being of my brother and his family, so I purchased him a 20 gauge coach gun for protection at his vacation home. The reason is that it is simple to operate, intimidating in appearance, and potent on the receiving end.

I am a gun person, and I have shortstroked pump shotguns on more than one occassion. At a 3 gun shoot earlier this month at the local fish and game club, one of the participants was "shut down" when a fired shell stuck in the chamber of his pump 12 gauge. A single stuck shell wouldn't shut down a sxs.

If I were serving warrants on violent felons or clearing buildings in a war zone, I would feel better served by a pump 12 gauge. For most home defense situations, I think a sxs is better because of its simple operation. In my particular case (in rural but not remote Maine), a 20 guage sxs would be perfect because my wife could handle it with ease while a 12 guage is too much gun for her and she is not be willing to become proficient with a pump.

With a sxs, if the bad guys show up, drop in buckshot and you're good to go. If a rabid animinal shows up in the back yard, drop in large bird shot or buckshot (as appropriate), and you're good to go.

My 2 cents' worth.

Your 2 cents worth are right on the money, Mainer. There are plenty of circumstances or situations where a Coach Gun makes the perfect choice in a defense tool, even if it's not the perfect choice for everyone all the time. As many pumps as I have and enjoy shooting, I'm glad to have a couple of coach guns around as well. :thumbsup:

Ruggles
07-18-2010, 21:08
Ha, I was fondling one in Gander Mt last night wondering the same thing. The small size would make them great in close quarters.

I imagine in 12ga it would kick like a motherfer though. It would work, but IMO there are better options.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_double_defense.php

:supergrin:

Mainer
07-19-2010, 20:46
Has your brother reported these trespasses to the local sheriff? If he hasn't broken in and stolen anything, my guess is he's poaching.

The poor local state trooper got an earfull about the felon from many different parties. It seems the felon burned all his bridges with the locals, became involved in a dispute with a local store, etc., etc. Thankfully, a stay in the county jail seems to have settled him down. He had some scam going whereby he was collecting disability, had an apartment in a small nearby town, and had his cabin in the wilderness. I suspect he was afflicted with some combination of mental illness, substance abuse, and plain old anti-social inclinations. I also wouldn't be surprised if he were engaged in illicit agriculture. The hundreds of footprints left around the vacation house was a form of nose thumbing.

FA5Si
07-19-2010, 20:50
The poor local state trooper got an earfull about the felon from many different parties. It seems the felon burned all his bridges with the locals, became involved in a dispute with a local store, etc., etc. Thankfully, a stay in the county jail seems to have settled him down. He had some scam going whereby he was collecting disability, had an apartment in a small nearby town, and had his cabin in the wilderness. I suspect he was afflicted with some combination of mental illness, substance abuse, and plain old anti-social inclinations. I also wouldn't be surprised if he were engaged in illicit agriculture. The hundreds of footprints left around the vacation house was a form of nose thumbing.

Sounds like a shotgun might be just the thing for him and no traceable ballistic evidence to boot.

Herd Sniper
07-19-2010, 20:58
Why not have the Stoeger shotgun for the initial greeting and a big bore handgun for the back-up device. The shotgun gives you 2 rounds for those social occasions when lots of firepower are needed immediately and the big bore handgun makes sure you can reload the shotgun when needed or if something breaks. Keeping it simple like that makes sense to me.

Mainer
07-19-2010, 21:08
Why not have the Stoeger shotgun for the initial greeting and a big bore handgun for the back-up device. The shotgun gives you 2 rounds for those social occasions when lots of firepower are needed immediately and the big bore handgun makes sure you can reload the shotgun when needed or if something breaks. Keeping it simple like that makes sense to me.

I concur with that combination.

mitchshrader
07-19-2010, 21:15
This is funny. I'm of the firm opinion that most folks who own shotguns for home defense are better served by using the gun they train with most.

Which is their primary handgun. Much of my logic applies here. If you don't train with a gun, serious training and regular practice.. then you're poorly advised to depend on it in life-critical situations.

Most folks don't train with a shotgun, unless you're speaking of shooting clays.

The fraction of shotgun owners who train with their shotguns (of any variety) with serious home defense in mind, is less than 1/2.

If you'll train with a double, you'll be ahead of the curve. If you won't, buy more ammo for your handgun, and buy night sights, and do low-light practice. Buying a gun that's more lethal doesn't do diddley for target recognition or shot placement. Yes you CAN miss with OO Buck at bar room distances, but the folks who do aren't often around to complain. Use the gun that is slickest in your hands. First beats 2nd every day of the week.

DHart
07-20-2010, 00:07
Sometimes a handgun is easier to wield in tight quarters where a shotgun is just too long and too slow to bring around in time... especially in tight quarters involving stairways and multiple rooms off the end of a stairway. I do some personal training myself in my own home and have found areas where a handgun would be preferrable to a long gun for sure, in terms of quick maneuverability and weapons retention. For that reason, I always keep both arms types quite readily available as needed. Shotgun with a sling so you can have it but not have to hold it. I think it's important to move about one's own home with the various weapons at your disposal to envision how you might meet with and deal with potential trouble... this is a VERY illuminating practice that we all must do if we are to consider ourselves in any way "prepared" for trouble.

Shotguns are always preferrable to handguns for defense in situations where they can be deployed effectively without compromising retention or engaging fire. Sometimes, though, the handgun is superior in terms of manipulation and weapon retention in tight quarters.

BubbaShoots
07-20-2010, 16:28
I carry a Stoeger coach gun in the cab of my truck. It is short enough that I can easily manuver it inside the cab (point out either window) and still have room to rest it on my shoulder for recoil. It is easy to carry from truck to home/hotel room/building. I also like the dual fire controls in case of a click. I carry a 1911 .45 on my hip in case I need more than 2 blasts or, if I can't get back to my truck.

a_tack
07-20-2010, 18:07
wow, dug up an old thread... in case i never posted it, this was my final decision...
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs035.snc3/12315_504980723270_84900055_30132903_5081879_n.jpg