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-   -   problem with 40 s&w reloads (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1174663)

d62_4life 01-23-2010 15:23

problem with 40 s&w reloads
 
ok i have read that their seems to be alot of problems reloading 40 S&W and shooting it out of a G23? I want to get started in reloading but am a little frightened that it might ruin my gun. Is their a certain reason that reloading .40 for a G23 is worse? Can you still reload it? Are most issues caused by stupidity? Thank you in advance any info will be greatly apreciated

D.Lo

LEAD 01-23-2010 15:34

You shouldnt shoor lead, unjacketed rounds in your factory glock barrel, this is because the polygonol rifling is more suseptible to leading than barrels with standard rifling (storm lake, bar-sto, lone wolf).

The reason that reloading for a g23 may be more risky is because of the previously stated fact and also that the chamber support for older glocks in 40 cal wasn't quite what it is today, which is still a little less supported than other competitors. Although , say if you have a 3rd gen 23, I wouldn't sweat it. This loose chmaber also sometimes results in spent casings being a little swollen at the end near the primer, this makes reusing brass a bit more complicated.

Most issues that relate to safety of you and the gun are caused by stupidity. If you want to shoot lead out of your 23, get an aftermarket barrel with standard rifling, if you pay attention when adding powder.

In short reloading for a g23 requires only a bit more caution than anyother gun, in that the rifling is differnt, this wont effect you if you load FMJS or JHPs. Also if your brass gets a potbelly, or out of shape, you have a little more work to do.

Jon_R 01-23-2010 15:36

I don't really know the stories but I have 2-3K of my reloads through my G23 without any issues.

I load 165Gr FMJ Montana Gold over 5.2 Gr Win 231. Makes 165 PF for USPSA and more then enough for IDPA. Stick with plated and not exposed lead or you will need to get a non glock barrel.

fyrecrotch 01-23-2010 15:40

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=reloading+.40+glock+bulge



Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAD (Post 14605205)
get an aftermarket barrel with standard rifling

good insurance

d62_4life 01-23-2010 16:23

thank you everyone so far . . . i dont plan to use lead since the overall advice is dont use it

shotgunred 01-23-2010 17:23

Mostly the only people who have prolbems with the 40 are people who load to hot or to fast.
Stay in the normal velocity of the 40 and have fun. If you want super fast bullets shoot the 357 sig.

WiskyT 01-23-2010 19:30

I must be Einstien smart. I have been loading 40SW with lead bullets for over a decade and never had a problem. I guess if you are just of average intelligence, you should stay away from loading 40SW.

My favorite urban legend is that polygonal barrels can't shoot lead. All of those 500SW guys shooting lead bullets through their polygonal barrels must be wrong to do it. Get yourslef an aftermarket barrel and then you can find out what a joy they are to deal with. All of these garage companies convinced everyone that Glock doesn't know how to make a 40SW barrel, but they do. So they sell everyone a 39SW barrel and then the buyers have to start countless threads about how they can't get 40SW ammo to fit in them. So they buy a 39SW FCD, a 39SW EGW U die, and a Redding 39SW push through die until they can load 39SW ammo to fit it...

Geezer1 01-23-2010 21:11

The reason that reloading for a g23 may be more risky is because of the previously stated fact and also that the chamber support for older glocks in 40 cal wasn't quite what it is today, which is still a little less supported than other competitors.

Mine is a Gen 3 RTF2. I am interested on the comment on "older Glocks". How old is that please. Gen 1 or 2.

I just purchased a G22 40 and at the conclusion of the sale I was advised not to shoot reloads or lead. Kinda took the wind out of my sales. However, I am the dumb one. I should have educated myself on the caliber/weapon prior to purchase. I just heard so much good about Glocks and the deal was attractive so I moved.

Having said all that, I have fired my gun a few times and the more I handle it the better I like it. I'll stick with my 40 and having reloaded centerfire rifles and wheel guns I'll follow the specs if I choose to reload. Great gun!!! Lools like a G19 appears to be on the radar.

umrek 01-23-2010 22:36

I agree with WiskyT, urban legend caused by fear and the need to sell after market parts. I've put thousands and thousands of lead reloads through many polygonal barrels, including a glock 23 and 27, with ZERO problems. My advice would be: 1.) Don't load near the max, 2) Inspect your brass carefully before reusing it and throw out anything questionable (it's cheap insurance), and 3) Clean your barrel after every shooting session. Do that and you won't have any problems because of lead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiskyT (Post 14606767)
I must be Einstien smart. I have been loading 40SW with lead bullets for over a decade and never had a problem. I guess if you are just of average intelligence, you should stay away from loading 40SW.

My favorite urban legend is that polygonal barrels can't shoot lead. All of those 500SW guys shooting lead bullets through their polygonal barrels must be wrong to do it. Get yourslef an aftermarket barrel and then you can find out what a joy they are to deal with. All of these garage companies convinced everyone that Glock doesn't know how to make a 40SW barrel, but they do. So they sell everyone a 39SW barrel and then the buyers have to start countless threads about how they can't get 40SW ammo to fit in them. So they buy a 39SW FCD, a 39SW EGW U die, and a Redding 39SW push through die until they can load 39SW ammo to fit it...


sourdough44 01-24-2010 04:14

I also don't have a problem with lead & stock barrels. I keep things clean. I have a Gen III Glock 22 & 23. I carefully compared chamber support with my H&K and it was just as good. I agree on the modest level loading for the 40 S&W. I load in the lower/mid range & have never had a problem. I also want reliable cycling, which I get. Most of my 40 reloads have been with H Universal, but I may try some others next time.

98LS-WON 01-24-2010 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by fyrecrotch (Post 14605239)

:rofl:

Funniest post I've seen in a while.

WiskyT 01-24-2010 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98LS-WON (Post 14608629)
:rofl:

Funniest post I've seen in a while.

Wow, no kidding. I thought it was just going to be another thread somewhere about how Dean Spier and Marco say my gun is going to blow up. I clicked on it after you brought attention to it and it is pretty funny. I never knew about the google thing either.

FWIW, my Glock 27 was made in '96 and I have run full power loads through it for years with 180lfp and Bullseye at 925fps. What I have found is that a 10% less than max load of Unique gets me the same velocity. A 10% reduction in powder yields a 20% reduction in pressure, which can only be a good thing. So by using unique I get duplication of factory 180 ball with a significant reduction in pressure. I'm sure other powders in the same burn rate range as Unique would yield similar results and that would be my recomendation.

Get Lyman data for lead bullets. Find a good lead bullet that matches up with their data. Pick a powder that apporximates Unique and is easy for you to get. Use the start load and don't worry about it anymore than you would any other caliber. That means be careful, don't fail to index your 550, and you'll be just fine.

KB2MBC 01-24-2010 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fyrecrotch (Post 14605239)

That's pretty good! :thumbsup:

KB2MBC 01-24-2010 06:28

For peace of mind, I got myself the Redding push-thru die for the .40S&W. It added an extra step in the reloading process but that didn't bother me. I only wished it was carbide so I didn't have to lube the case.

Faulkner 01-24-2010 07:48

I loaded over 5,000 rounds on my Dillon 550 that have been fired through my G23 and G27 no problems at all. I only load jacketed bullets and I don't load them hot. If I wanted a 10mm I'd buy a 10mm.

shotgunred 01-24-2010 09:44

When the 23's first came out there was a issue. it was a perfect storm type of thing. the barrels had less support. Some of the brass was to thin and people were loading to hot and fast. People were tring to get 124 grain velocity out of 180 grain bullets. Heck at one time AA changed the max load out of AA#5 twice in a month.

Chose a good powder for the 40 and keep you pressures in the normal range and you wont have any issues. Start with Hodgdon HP-38 for mouse farts and end with longshot for high speed rounds.


try one of these. Listed by burn rate.

Hodgdon HP-38
Winchester 231
Alliant 20/28
Alliant Unique
Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
Alliant Power Pistol
Vihtavouri N330
Alliant Herco
Winchester WSF
Vihtavouri N340
IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X
IMR, Co SR4756
Accurate Arms No. 5
Hodgdon HS-6
Vihtavouri 3N37
Vihtavouri N350
Hodgdon HS-7
Vihtavouri 3N38
Alliant Blue Dot
Accurate Arms No. 7
Hodgdon LONGSHOT

Jon_R 01-24-2010 12:04

I am not sure who advised you on not shooting reloads but every gun manual I have ever seen says not to shoot reloads. It is standard to say not to do it but obviously a lot of people do.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer1 (Post 14607420)
I just purchased a G22 40 and at the conclusion of the sale I was advised not to shoot reloads or lead. Kinda took the wind out of my sales. However, I am the dumb one. I should have educated myself on the caliber/weapon prior to purchase. I just heard so much good about Glocks and the deal was attractive so I moved.

Having said all that, I have fired my gun a few times and the more I handle it the better I like it. I'll stick with my 40 and having reloaded centerfire rifles and wheel guns I'll follow the specs if I choose to reload. Great gun!!! Lools like a G19 appears to be on the radar.


Colorado4Wheel 01-24-2010 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunred (Post 14609570)
When the 23's first came out there was a issue. it was a perfect storm type of thing. the barrels had less support. Some of the brass was to thin and people were loading to hot and fast. People were tring to get 124 grain velocity out of 180 grain bullets. Heck at one time AA changed the max load out of AA#5 twice in a month.

Chose a good powder for the 40 and keep you pressures in the normal range and you wont have any issues. Start with Hodgdon HP-38 for mouse farts and end with longshot for high speed rounds.


try one of these. Listed by burn rate.

Hodgdon HP-38
Winchester 231
Alliant 20/28
Alliant Unique
Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
Alliant Power Pistol
Vihtavouri N330
Alliant Herco
Winchester WSF
Vihtavouri N340
IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X
IMR, Co SR4756
Accurate Arms No. 5
Hodgdon HS-6
Vihtavouri 3N37
Vihtavouri N350
Hodgdon HS-7
Vihtavouri 3N38
Alliant Blue Dot
Accurate Arms No. 7
Hodgdon LONGSHOT

No love for TiteGroup?

El_Ron1 01-24-2010 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunred (Post 14609570)
Heck at one time AA changed the max load out of AA#5 twice in a month.

They did more than that:


http://i47.tinypic.com/2afyl3r.jpg

Geezer1 01-24-2010 18:39

When I got my G22 home I started to wonder if I should obtain a match grade aftermarket barrel. My thoughts were full round support and increased accuracy. I wrote a well known barrel manufacture and their response is below. I found it very interesting/satisfying they were candid and did not simply promote a purchase.


QUOTE: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
As long as you use good quality ammunition you should have no problem with this firearm. Like them or not they are reliable and shoot no less accurately than any other factory made firearm. Glock has manufactured tens of thousands of these models and have suffered no more failures than any other company out there. I would only replace the barrel if you find it's current accuracy insufficient but spend some time on the range shooting it before you decide on anything. UNQUOTE:



Geezer1 01-24-2010 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_R (Post 14610328)
I am not sure who advised you on not shooting reloads but every gun manual I have ever seen says not to shoot reloads. It is standard to say not to do it but obviously a lot of people do.


The retailer told me not to shoot reloads or lead. The only objection I have is he never mentioned anything about reloads or lead until the deal was over......nor did he mention any history about potential KBs. When I picked the weapon up the next day I asked him about both and simply said Glock has made improvements.

As far as reloading, I believe any responsible reloader inspects shotgun hulls, rifle and pistol brass prior to reloading.....and follows the specs. I sure do. As for my 22, I am going to shoot nothing but factory ammo for a few hundred rounds.

It appears to me the lack of full case support is potenitally a problem when poor cases are reloaded and reloaded hot. Nothing new there. I was interested in "Lead" comment about "older" Glocks not having as much support. I was really trying to nail down if Glock has indeed improved the barrel to accomodate the 40 pressures. Good forum

Memnok 01-24-2010 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by umrek (Post 14607860)
I agree with WiskyT, urban legend caused by fear and the need to sell after market parts. I've put thousands and thousands of lead reloads through many polygonal barrels, including a glock 23 and 27, with ZERO problems. My advice would be: 1.) Don't load near the max, 2) Inspect your brass carefully before reusing it and throw out anything questionable (it's cheap insurance), and 3) Clean your barrel after every shooting session. Do that and you won't have any problems because of lead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiskyT (Post 14606767)
I must be Einstien smart. I have been loading 40SW with lead bullets for over a decade and never had a problem. I guess if you are just of average intelligence, you should stay away from loading 40SW

I think both these posts are right on. I used to shoot led SWC's with no problems at all out of my Glock 22. Just keep things clean and stay away from the smoke'n hot loads.

1006 01-24-2010 20:35

The times that I have shot the moly coated lead bullets in my G-24 have resulted in a ton of hard to get out lead or moly stuck in my barrel. I don't know if you should or shouldn't shoot lead in a Polygonal barrel like the Glock or HK, but I have chronoed all of my loads and found that these barrels give poor performance with moly coated lead bullets. My 40 S&W, 5 inch, 1911, Bar Sto barrel always out performs my G-24's 6 inch factory barrel with lead, my HK USPc is terrible with these bullets. I was surprised to discover the difference between the two barrel types. The 1911 doesn't lead up either -- with the same bullets. I run the aftermarket barrels in my Glocks for the improved performance and the lack of lead build up with non jacketed bullets. I stick to Jacketed in the HK.

shotgunred 01-24-2010 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel (Post 14612245)
No love for TiteGroup?

Or solo 1000. They both have their place but not for beginners with the 40.

Colorado4Wheel 01-25-2010 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunred (Post 14614792)
Or solo 1000. They both have their place but not for beginners with the 40.

I can see your point with Solo1000 and beginners. But Titegroup? It's so common and so easy to use for a fast powder. Is it just the speed that you object to?


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