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-   -   IL Under the Gun..... (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1342519)

WarCry 05-13-2011 18:09

IL Under the Gun.....
 
Two separate lawsuits filed against the state today.

The NRA has filed Shepard v. Madigan in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Illinois

and

The Second Amendment Foundation filed on behalf of Michael Moore of Champaign and Charles Hooks of Percy against Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan and State Police Superintendent Patrick Keen in U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois.

Last week, IL Rep Brandon Phelps warned on the floor that if HB0148 didn't pass, then it would be settled in the courts, where they would be less willing to compromise than he's been.

The bill didn't pass (yet). Welcome to round two.

tshadow6 05-13-2011 18:18

Il ccw
 
What is the status of the IL CCW bill? The last I read, the bill failed to get a veto proof super majority by 6 votes. The bill was then pulled or shelved for some kind of reconsideration. Is there any new info? I'm hoping IL gets "Shall Issue" passed, just to tee off the gun grabbers.

WarCry 05-13-2011 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tshadow6 (Post 17342019)
What is the status of the IL CCW bill? The last I read, the bill failed to get a veto proof super majority by 6 votes. The bill was then pulled or shelved for some kind of reconsideration. Is there any new info? I'm hoping IL gets "Shall Issue" passed, just to tee off the gun grabbers.

It's not just about a veto-proof majority. It DOES have that effect also, but the reason for the 3/5ths majority votes is because it's preempts home rule. That means that no city - even Chicago - can make more strict rules than what's in the bill. In the IL Constitution, if you preempt home rule, you're required to get 3/5ths. That means 71 votes in the house and 36 in the Senate.

Last Thursday, the board was run up to 68 "Yea" votes, then, when it seemed it may not pass, some started pulling their votes. They "dumped the board" and requested Postponed Consideration. That means it's like the vote didn't happen at all. They now get to work on the members to try and wrangle the votes, and the deadline for action stands at 5/20/11 right now.

rfb45colt 05-14-2011 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarCry (Post 17342066)
It's not just about a veto-proof majority. It DOES have that effect also, but the reason for the 3/5ths majority votes is because it's preempts home rule. That means that no city - even Chicago - can make more strict rules than what's in the bill. In the IL Constitution, if you preempt home rule, you're required to get 3/5ths. That means 71 votes in the house and 36 in the Senate.

Last Thursday, the board was run up to 68 "Yea" votes, then, when it seemed it may not pass, some started pulling their votes. They "dumped the board" and requested Postponed Consideration. That means it's like the vote didn't happen at all. They now get to work on the members to try and wrangle the votes, and the deadline for action stands at 5/20/11 right now.

Just curious, and not suggesting this.... If the bill was re-written so it did not pre-empt home rule, could it then be passed with a simple majority? It seems like it's basically Chicago and Cook County that's holding up what the rest of the State wants. Only as a last resort, exclude them. Maybe when the rest of ILL gets rights that are withheld from Chicago residents, the sheeple there will wake up.

WarCry 05-14-2011 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfb45colt (Post 17344577)
Just curious, and not suggesting this.... If the bill was re-written so it did not pre-empt home rule, could it then be passed with a simple majority? It seems like it's basically Chicago and Cook County that's holding up what the rest of the State wants. Only as a last resort, exclude them. Maybe when the rest of ILL gets rights that are withheld from Chicago residents, the sheeple there will wake up.

I've suggested the same thing, and nearly had my head ripped off by those in Chicago. My suggestion of "Just move if you don't like it it" would be hypocritical, since the same could be said of everyone in the state.

The other issue is, if you can't muster the votes to preempt Home Rule, you probably can't override the veto that the governor has promised, either.


The two lawsuits, though, may scare the state into passing the bill so they have SOME restrictions rather than letting the lawsuits go through have something like a Constitutional Carry declared by the courts. While this would be a FANTASTIC outcome, either option gets me the right to carry outside of my house.

JK-linux 05-14-2011 11:37

.....

KingWalleye 05-14-2011 18:02

At this point we shouldn't give up anything. Constitutional Carry or having the FOID become our de facto ccw permit sounds good to me. (10 years, $10.00)

WarCry 05-14-2011 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingWalleye (Post 17346561)
At this point we shouldn't give up anything. Constitutional Carry or having the FOID become our de facto ccw permit sounds good to me. (10 years, $10.00)

That appears to be what the NRA's Shepard v. Madigan suit is going for.

From the filed complaint:

Quote:

WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray that this Honorable Cour:
A. Enter a declaratory judgment, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 2201, that Ilinois statutes 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4), (a)(10) and 1.6 set forth above, and certain other of its sub-parts, are null and void because they are in violation of the United States Constitution and laws of the United States, specifically the Second and Foureenth Amendments and 42 U.S.c. 1983;

B. Enter a preliminary and permanent injunction enjoining the Defendants and their officers, agents and employees from enforcing the Ilinois statutes 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4), (a)(10) and 5/24-1.6 set forth above, and certin other of its sub-parts as set forth herein;
Brandon Phelps said they weren't going to be willing to negotiate. The state has about 1 week to get HB0148 passed if they want to try and avoid this...

as400guy1 05-14-2011 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK-linux (Post 17345036)
I'll never understand why firearms horrify Chicago so much. Growing up in Peoria, they were common to the point of being boring. Best of luck to Illinois residents. It sucks when the voters of Chicago consistently choose to keep people in office that keep the rest of the State down. I'd personally pass the law without preemption and let Chicago fight their own battles. Chicago has no problem letting the rest of the State fend for themselves so the precedent is already out there. ;)

I agree and live in Chicago....will be escaping soon.

The issue in Chicago is a frame of mind. In Chicago, once you make a decision, you stick to it no matter what. You see it not only in politics but in corporations and sports teams as well.

madcitycop 05-15-2011 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK-linux (Post 17345036)
I'll never understand why firearms horrify Chicago so much. Growing up in Peoria, they were common to the point of being boring. Best of luck to Illinois residents. It sucks when the voters of Chicago consistently choose to keep people in office that keep the rest of the State down. I'd personally pass the law without preemption and let Chicago fight their own battles. Chicago has no problem letting the rest of the State fend for themselves so the precedent is already out there. ;)

But then there would be a lot of guns out on the streets :whistling::juggle:

I hope it passes soon and we do see more shootings...of these coward armed robbers who prey on innocent people who have no legal means to protect themselves.

cdog533 05-15-2011 02:15

It HAS to pass with a SuperMajority to avoid a veto by the dumb ass liberal governor. So, while avoiding home rule is critical too, the real issue is the guaranteed veto.

It would be awesome to shove this bill down Chicago's throat!

wrangler5 05-16-2011 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK-linux (Post 17345036)
I'll never understand why firearms horrify Chicago so much. . . .

The perhaps-facetious explanation is that Chicago is a wholly owned subsidiary of Organized Crime, and the last thing Organized Crime wants is armed victims.

This is in fact what was behind New York's 1911 ban on concealed weapons, the (in)famous Sullivan Act (still on the books, BTW) - Sullivan was a mob boss in NYC and also a state senator. His minions, who robbed citizens passing through Sullivan's territory on the way to and from ships at the docks, were facing increasing instances where their victims armed themselves for protection. In order to protect his thugs, and the income they provided to him, Sullivan introduced the law that disarmed the victims.

Now maybe Chicago is different. But their fanatic insistence on a disarmed populace, in the face of decades of overwhelming evidence from cities all over the country that armed, law abiding, citizens pose no threat to the peace, suggests that there are motives other than "public safety" behind Chicago's political stance.


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