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-   -   What's next, a hug and a glass of warm milk? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1345183)

Morris 05-24-2011 23:00

What's next, a hug and a glass of warm milk?
 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...fanity25m.html

Now I understand why the retirement rate took off.

Pepper45 05-24-2011 23:18

As part of CALEA, we got a new policy manual last year. Originally, there was a policy in there about profanity, and the city manager wanted it to stay. Our chief pulled it, stating that she couldn't "get my Tourette's on" if it was deleted. Excessive profanity at the wrong times is covered under unprofessional conduct. Swearing at bangers is not unprofessional. They don't understand anything if half of the words don't have four letters, and start with "F".

Morris 05-24-2011 23:23

Quote:

The driver, who was arrested, and the passenger, who was released, were identified by police as MS-13 gang members, under supervision by the state Department of Corrections.

During the stop, the two men used profanity while talking of hurting and fighting with the officers, saying they deserved to be killed, according to the records.
Never mind this Chief Diaz . . .

dano1427 05-25-2011 00:26

20 days off for language? I bet moral is at its highest point, ever....

Newcop761 05-25-2011 02:30

Wow. How much money did Seattle waste searching for this guy?

How about Lt. Kuehn? Was he ever a cop? More gerbil voodoo coming during the next training day.

txleapd 05-25-2011 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper45 (Post 17397813)
As part of CALEA, we got a new policy manual last year. Originally, there was a policy in there about profanity, and the city manager wanted it to stay. Our chief pulled it, stating that she couldn't "get my Tourette's on" if it was deleted. Excessive profanity at the wrong times is covered under unprofessional conduct. Swearing at bangers is not unprofessional. They don't understand anything if half of the words don't have four letters, and start with "F".

We dumped CALEA 2 years ago... Colossal waste of taxpayer money.

On profanity.... About 10 years ago (different chief, different city leadership) we had an officer get complained on because he told a non-cooperative subject to "sit his ass down.". The chief at the time gave the officer a written reprimand. The officer refused to sign it, and demanded a suspension instead, so he could arbitrate the punishment. Everyone rallied to the officer's side, including the staff psychiatrist and lead DT instructor. It was argued that sometimes harsh language has to be used to get someone's full attention, and let them know you're serious.... He ultimately wasn't punished.

The current chief has said more than once that sometimes you have to cuss, when appropriate. He gets it.

Harsh language is sometimes a part of the job, and you speak to people as they speak to you. Some people can only comprehend profanity. It's not about being rude, it's about people comprehending what you're saying. Dropping F bombs while interviewing a little old lady (who's a victim) isn't appropriate. Strongly ordering a gang banger suspect (who keeps walking toward you in a dark alley) to "get the 'F' back" is appropriate.

Hack 05-25-2011 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dano1427 (Post 17397964)
20 days off for language? I bet moral is at its highest point, ever....

A lot of institutions in my agency have this policy. Freaken nuts!!

x_out86 05-25-2011 06:54

I will agree...There is a time and place to get down and dirty and talk with people on their level. Every once in a while you have to tell people in no uncertain terms to sit down and be quiet using other more colorful words. Just last week I told a guy involved in a minor bar fight to "get his S*** and go the ******* home". He knew I was serious and did just that. It was the right place and time to use such language, and I am sure my chief would agree.

I wont armchair quarterback since there is no audio or direct quotes. One can only assume that the choice of words and their plentiful use was probably a little over the top.

However, 20 days w/o pay? I would think a letter in the file and MAYBE at best a day or two would have been much more appropriate. However, I know that Seattle Police Bureau is looking to play the political game any chance they get for some good PR for once. Or at least what they perceive as good PR.

Morris 05-25-2011 09:23

I might use "gutter language" if I had some gang bangers threatening to kill me and my partners.

Seattle city proper is insane. I feel for the rank and file.

Newcop761 05-25-2011 09:41

Left Seattle and King County in the rear view mirror.

This asinine decision will discourage pro-active officers from sticking their necks out to make good arrests.

MarcDW 05-25-2011 10:54

20 days without pay for bad language?
I would call this excessive and unreasonable!!

pgg00 05-25-2011 11:40

Morris. Do you know if their guild is going to fight it?

I'm sure glad I didn't look at Seattle when I came up here

Morris 05-25-2011 11:56

My understanding is that two of the officers will and the guild president is identified as being not as vocal as in the past but makes clear statements. That tells me something is brewing.

I thought I'd never see the day when officers were looking to lateral AWAY from SPD but I'm hearing of a few looking for more reasonable pastures, even if it means a pay cut.

pgg00 05-25-2011 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris (Post 17399665)
My understanding is that two of the officers will and the guild president is identified as being not as vocal as in the past but makes clear statements. That tells me something is brewing.

I thought I'd never see the day when officers were looking to lateral AWAY from SPD but I'm hearing of a few looking for more reasonable pastures, even if it means a pay cut.

We may have one lateral spot opening up soon if we get the funding approved.

msu_grad_121 05-25-2011 13:06

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous no matter how you cut it. Should the officers have remained professional and not resorted to profanity? Debateable.

However, what this shows is that Diaz was never a working cop, and knows nothing about how gang members are. You can't communicate with the dregs of society using "sirs" and "ma'ams". 1) they won't know what you're saying and 2) they see it as a sign of weakness. If it was over the top, it was over the top, but especially with scumbags like MS-13, I don't see how it COULD be over the top.

On a related note, back in 04 I got my leg broken making an arrest during a huge donnybrook. When I went to see the boss the next day, he handed me 14 complaints about the string of profanity that flew from my mouth immediately following the kick that broke my leg. To prove what a cool guy he was, he let me read each one, and then took the whole stack and put them thru the shredder. Now THAT'S a boss that gets it...

lawman800 05-27-2011 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by txleapd (Post 17398426)
Harsh language is sometimes a part of the job, and you speak to people as they speak to you. Some people can only comprehend profanity. It's not about being rude, it's about people comprehending what you're saying. Dropping F bombs while interviewing a little old lady (who's a victim) isn't appropriate. Strongly ordering a gang banger suspect (who keeps walking toward you in a dark alley) to "get the 'F' back" is appropriate.

Exactly. Sometimes you have to say what you have to say and it could very well be a matter of life and death.

Would I use that kind of language in 99% of my encounters? Probably not very likely. However, when it comes time to get down to business and that is what it took to get it done, then I will say it.

One time, my partner was busy holding a suspect down to cuff him. He was okay but busy. In the meantime, 3 huge dudes came walking down the street toward us, yelling and cussing at us about us messing with their cousin. These guys might as well be walking tanks because they were huge!

I tell them to stay back. Nothing. Yell, "STAY BACK!" Nothing. Out comes the pistol to the side of my leg, "STAY THE ***** BACK!" Compliance.

It could very well be the gun... but I think the F-bomb may have accentuated the seriousness of the situation.


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