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-   -   Ratting a bad one out...... (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1346183)

USAFE7 05-29-2011 17:52

Ratting a bad one out......
 
There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?

Mayhem like Me 05-29-2011 17:58

No x 4

Dragoon44 05-29-2011 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAFE7 (Post 17420089)
There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. No

FiremanMike 05-29-2011 18:05

It's the *********s who cross the line consistently that make this job difficult for everyone else. I have no use for these people, and would absolutely turn in things I knew to be bad.

KiloBravo 05-29-2011 18:10

Jerk offs like the ones you mentioned OP are he exact reason why the hiring process takes so damn long for guys pike me who would actually do an honest and commendable job as a LEO. All of the things listed are pretty nasty crimes in my opinion, and I would drop a dime on anybody doing those things in a heartbeat, cop or not.

blueiron 05-29-2011 19:02

I walked away from a DEA career over a fellow S/A stealing from a suspect.

Break a law of G-d or a serious law of Man and I would not tolerate it.

The only time I ever allowed any slack was for minor traffic offenses - and that privilege was extended to citizens as well.

USAFE7 05-29-2011 19:07

I figured that "No" would be the overwhelming answer. Of course I'm sure there will be the "Well hell no they won't admit to it" but, what about the officer that admitted he knew and allowed this to continue, that "quit his job" rather than try to stop all the horrid illegal activities being committed by fellow officers? Just what type of person is he? Police work is a true calling for the "good" officers, so why would a "good" officer quit his calling rather than correct what he was called to do? I'm just looking for some insight from the LEOs that may have dealt with this on a personal or departmental level.
*edit to add*
I was a member of one of the 5 largest "Police" forces in the United States and can honestly say that we never covered for our fellow Airmen and NEVER expected to be covered for (other than being late for roll call :whistling: )

msu_grad_121 05-29-2011 19:12

Of course I wouldn't tolerate any of those things, but the accusations come from someone who is saying these things in an attempt to justify their preconceived notions regarding the other issue by demonstrating that they've "been there and done that." Personally, I don't buy any of it for a second.

Are there purely evil, rotten cops out there? Without a doubt, just as sure as there are rotten lawyers, doctors and garbage collectors. However, I can say without fear of contradiction that these people are in the extreme minority. The person you were referring to is (in my opinion) saying these things in order to justify their mercifully short "career" in LE without drawing any suspicion upon themselves.

But yeah, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to drop a dime on someone who did any of those things. I'm not here to lie for myself, let alone you.

Rohniss 05-29-2011 19:31

No x4, and anyone who does is a worm.

Dragoon44 05-29-2011 19:33

No one hates bad cops more than other cops.

The problem arises with definitions. many of the posters on these forums equate "bad Cop" with any cop that does not do things "Their way". rather than those that actually violate the law or ethical standards.

rdrkt 05-29-2011 19:34

I think he is just confusing his life with the movie Internal Affairs.

blueiron 05-29-2011 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAFE7 (Post 17420446)
Of course I'm sure there will be the "Well hell no they won't admit to it" but, what about the officer that admitted he knew and allowed this to continue, that "quit his job" rather than try to stop all the horrid illegal activities being committed by fellow officers?


Considering that based on your above statement, it sounds like you are lumping me in with the corrupt and I take great offense at your statement, along with its rather overt inference.

You don't know what transpired in my instance, so I'll spell it out for you. I worked the largest indoor MJ grow operation [>20,000 plants] in the U.S. to that date - 1990 in Golden Valley, Arizona; with ancillary grow operations in Lancaster, California and Las Vegas Nevada. I saw a senior S/A stealing expensive vintage bottles of wine from the suspect's house and place them into his personal ruck. I also saw the same bottles at the hotel where we were staying. The senior S/A ignored my demands to return the property and I went to the Group Supervisor. They were both personal friends and neither did anything. I went to the ASAC and he elected to do nothing, siding with the GS. I stormed out of his office and went out to contemplate. I returned to work Monday morning and demanded to see the SAC. After telling him of my observations and my outrage, his statement was: "do what you have to do". Seeing that he and the command of the Phoenix Field Division refused to do anything, I tossed my credentials on the desk and quit.

Congressional Representatives and Senators didn't give excrement about it, nor did DOJ. Repeated letters did nothing. Executive Office didn't either - G.H.W. Bush got a certified letter and not squat was done.

If that makes me corrupt in your eyes, so be it. I suggest an Opthalmologist and college courses in Ethics and Logic before passing judgment on others.

By the way - How much dope did you take off the street?

Here's the background.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-...marijuana-farm

USAFE7 05-29-2011 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueiron (Post 17420661)
Considering that based on your above statement, it sounds like you are lumping me in with the corrupt and I take great offense at your statement, along with its rather overt inference.

You don't know what transpired in my instance, so I'll spell it out for you. I worked the largest indoor MJ grow operation [>20,000 plants] in the U.S. to that date - 1990 in Golden Valley, Arizona; with ancillary grow operations in Lancaster, California and Las Vegas Nevada. I saw a senior S/A stealing expensive vintage bottles of wine from the suspect's house and place them into his personal ruck. I also saw the same bottles at the hotel where we were staying. The senior S/A ignored my demands to return the property and I went to the Group Supervisor. They were both personal friends and neither did anything. I went to the ASAC and he elected to do nothing, siding with the GS. I stormed out of his office and went out to contemplate. I returned to work Monday morning and demanded to see the SAC. After telling him of my observations and my outrage, his statement was: "do what you have to do". Seeing that he and the command of the Phoenix Field Division refused to do anything, I tossed my credentials on the desk and quit.

Congressional Representatives and Senators didn't give excrement about it, nor did DOJ. Repeated letters did nothing. Executive Office didn't either - G.H.W. Bush got a certified letter and not squat was done.

If that makes me corrupt in your eyes, so be it. I suggest an Opthalmologist and college courses in Ethics and Logic before passing judgment on others.

By the way - How much dope did you take off the street?

Here's the background.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-...marijuana-farm

It has NOTHING to do with you. It has to do with another poster in the Oath Keeper thread.....it should be easy to figure out who it is.
*edit to add*
I'm pretty sure Dragoon44 knows who this thread is in reference to.
"By the way - How much dope did you take off the street?" Do insurgents count?

Rabbi 05-29-2011 21:00

Not no, but hell no!

Besides all the moral issues and the " I am one of the good guys and that is what the good guys do..."

There is another issue. Without being "idealistic" or "holier than thou" we are a group of people committed to doing a job the best we can. Part of that job is actually being "the good guys" It makes the system work, it is the efficient way to go about it.

When someone isnt on the same page as everyone else. I.E. a buch of good guys doing the best they can with someone working outside that system, it makes the job harder for everone else. No one wants that around. It brings heat on everyone. It sows the seeds of distrust. It makes a hard job harder and while LEOs do deal with a lot of chicken crap stuff, there is always the threat of it turning into life or death. So this game is for keeps.

You need other people around you who are on the same page. Or as Dragoon said "No one hates bad cops more than other cops.

collim1 05-29-2011 21:03

I wouldn't stand for it, not only cause its wrong but I would not want to be raked over the coals with the dirtbag because I knew and didn't do something about it.

Dragoon44 05-29-2011 21:13

Quote:

I'm pretty sure Dragoon44 knows who this thread is in reference to.
Yeah, Rhymes with taco.

:rofl::rofl:

ateamer 05-29-2011 21:26

No all the way down. You are either 100% honest or you do not belong in this job. Period.

rgregoryb 05-29-2011 21:33

I worked special investigations for the Chief's Office, not IA (we had an IA unit to handle complaints) The investigations involved murder, Armored Car robbery and systematic corruption involving an entire precinct (sale of automatic weapons, drug protection and arson) so no I don't care for bad cops.

collim1 05-29-2011 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgregoryb (Post 17421251)
I worked special investigations for the Chief's Office, not IA (we had an IA unit to handle complaints) The investigations involved murder, Armored Car robbery and systematic corruption involving an entire precinct (sale of automatic weapons, drug protection and arson) so no I don't care for bad cops.

Wow, that sounds like a rough gig.

msu_grad_121 05-29-2011 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoon44 (Post 17421154)
Yeah, Rhymes with taco.

:rofl::rofl:

Didn't see the thread lock coming, did you, "pops"? :supergrin:

Him and that Mr. Happy *** or whatever his name is are so stupid, I think they have me cancer!

cowboywannabe 05-29-2011 22:31

come on...i mean hows a cop suppose to live off the piddly pay and pension they earn? whats a little skimming off the top from the badguys?

i mean, how can you steal money from somebody who stole the same money? if it wasnt theirs to began with you cant steal it from them can you?

besides, if all you need for felony possesion of marijuana is more than 1 ounce, why send in 2 pounds when you could divey that up for evidence planting on 5-6 locals who constanly complain about the cops.....

jcsd2407 05-29-2011 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAFE7 (Post 17420089)
There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?

A flat-out, emphatic, NO.

SAR 05-29-2011 22:50

I wish it were that easy... There are black and white cases, which I am sure that everyone here would agree should be dealt with harshly. It's the gray area cases that are much harder. If you've never experienced it for yourself, you'd find it hard to understand. The bigger problem is that many members of management, in their zeal to make rank, never spent any appreciable time in the field to know what constitutes black, white and gray.

I knew an officer who was arrested for muder for hire. To me this was a no brainer. Likewise, I knew an officer who was arrested for murder. Again a no brainer. I've known several who were involved in the Rampart scandal and did prison time for running drugs, planting evidence, and a number of other crimes. But what about Rodney King? Anyone here (besides me) ever see the entire video? Anyone here besides me know what happened to the other officers in the video, aside from the ones who were tried and aquitted in court? Twenty years later, the legacy of Rodney King haunts me. How about you?

Hack 05-29-2011 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboywannabe (Post 17421449)
come on...i mean hows a cop suppose to live off the piddly pay and pension they earn? whats a little skimming off the top from the badguys?

i mean, how can you steal money from somebody who stole the same money? if it wasnt theirs to began with you cant steal it from them can you?

besides, if all you need for felony possesion of marijuana is more than 1 ounce, why send in 2 pounds when you could divey that up for evidence planting on 5-6 locals who constanly complain about the cops.....

This at least deserves a :whistling::innocent:

Hack 05-29-2011 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAR (Post 17421520)
Twenty years later, the legacy of Rodney King haunts me. How about you?

Often in some ways. Not necessarily directly concerning that case, however think about what we do for a living, or just about my career field. Corrections is automatically seen by some as something that would attract only the dullard who would be more than tempted to simply lay in blows to each inmate he encounters, regardless of the reason. The dullard thus drags his knuckles on the floor, and his fully muscled and looks like Brutus from Popeye cartoons, and always carries that billy in his strong hand ready to use it at the slightest provocation. And, we're equated with incidents like what happened concerning the Rodney King incident, and any other famous incident for that matter having to do with uses of force. After all the PO-PO is the Man and is ready to make you cry and bleed for being a bad boy.

This all from the perspectives I have heard from other people ignorant to what we actually do. I am fairly soft spoken, well mannered most of the time, and people have actually stated that they find it hard to believe that I do what I do for a living. When explained to them that it is not always about loud speech, physical uses of force and the like you sometimes still see a look of disbelief emanate from some of their faces.


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