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achysklic 06-11-2011 16:01

Pentecost
 
As most of you know today is Gods weekly Sabbath, it begins at sunset fri. evening and ends at sunset sat. evening. What most of you don't know is that at the end of the weekly Sabbath today begins a High Sabbath of God. Pentecost one of Gods annual Holydays begins at sunset today. It is often referred to as the feast of weeks or ingathering,also day of FirstFruits. Most of you in churchianity only know of the term from the book of acts where Gods people were keeping this Holyday and upon hearing about Christ message repented,were baptized, had hands laid upon them and the Father sent His spirit to dwell in them and teach them.

In prophecy Pentecost pictures the gathering of Jesus in getting His church. It pictures the 1st resurrection of the dead. (Christ Church). If all this seems foriegn to you I suggest you spend this Holyday praying, studing, and repenting to find yourself in Gods true church and take part is His Pentecost now and forever.

Peace

jjboogie 06-16-2011 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17480707)
As most of you know today is Gods weekly Sabbath, it begins at sunset fri. evening and ends at sunset sat. evening. What most of you don't know is that at the end of the weekly Sabbath today begins a High Sabbath of God. Pentecost one of Gods annual Holydays begins at sunset today. It is often referred to as the feast of weeks or ingathering,also day of FirstFruits. Most of you in churchianity only know of the term from the book of acts where Gods people were keeping this Holyday and upon hearing about Christ message repented,were baptized, had hands laid upon them and the Father sent His spirit to dwell in them and teach them.

In prophecy Pentecost pictures the gathering of Jesus in getting His church. It pictures the 1st resurrection of the dead. (Christ Church). If all this seems foriegn to you I suggest you spend this Holyday praying, studing, and repenting to find yourself in Gods true church and take part is His Pentecost now and forever.

Peace


This is partially right and partially wrong.


Jesus disciples went to Jerusalem because Jesus specifically told them to stay there because they would be baptized by the Holy Spirit!

Tongues of fire came down on the apostles and the apostles spoke in tongues and preached the message of Christ to Jews there celebrated Pentecost.

Then 3,000 were baptized that day and were saved.

Pentecost today is no longer a requirement for God's assembly to uphold.

That was for ancient Israel under the Old Covenant.

Brasso 06-16-2011 23:54

Actually, we kept it last Sunday. We use the conjunction.

As far as Old Covenant, I just don't have the stomach to go into that again. Suffice it to say, every Feast Day depicts Messiah. The Torah was given on Pentacost. The Holy Spirit was given on Pentacost. And something else will probably happen in the future on Pentacost. Remember the Latter Rain? The first time was considered a down payment. Payment in full is still to come.

I believe First Fruits falls on the first Sunday after Passover, but starts the omer count to Pentacost.

achysklic 06-17-2011 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjboogie (Post 17505448)
This is partially right and partially wrong.


Jesus disciples went to Jerusalem because Jesus specifically told them to stay there because they would be baptized by the Holy Spirit!

Tongues of fire came down on the apostles and the apostles spoke in tongues and preached the message of Christ to Jews there celebrated Pentecost.

Then 3,000 were baptized that day and were saved.

Pentecost today is no longer a requirement for God's assembly to uphold.

That was for ancient Israel under the Old Covenant.

Everyone was gather together because this was a Holy day of God all the children of Israel always kept Gods feasts.

As far as no longer required I ask for you to show proof of this?

If you read lev. 23 it clearly states Gods Holy days are forever throughout your generations. Has forever stopped?

Also all of Gods Holy Days are still mentioned being kept by the apostles long after Jesus died in the New Test.

Shall I show you?

jjboogie 06-17-2011 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17506412)
Everyone was gather together because this was a Holy day of God all the children of Israel always kept Gods feasts.

As far as no longer required I ask for you to show proof of this?

If you read lev. 23 it clearly states Gods Holy days are forever throughout your generations. Has forever stopped?

Also all of Gods Holy Days are still mentioned being kept by the apostles long after Jesus died in the New Test.

Shall I show you?


So you celebrated Pentecost?

How?

achysklic 06-17-2011 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjboogie (Post 17507192)
So you celebrated Pentecost?

How?

Yes I did, I kept it as a Sabbath, I had a holy convacation on it, sent a offering to God as commanded.

I done just as all the true christians have since God had given it.

If you reject Gods Sabbaths you reject God.

BTW in Lev. 23 here's a hint these are not the feasts of the jews or Israelites.
They are Feasts of the Lord! He says they are MY Feasts! to be kept forever!

jjboogie 06-17-2011 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17507379)
Yes I did, I kept it as a Sabbath, I had a holy convacation on it, sent a offering to God as commanded.

But that is not how God commands you celebrate Pentecost.

Vic Hays 06-17-2011 10:26

If you are a Gentile convert to Christianity, it is not a commandment of God that you celebrate the feast days. If you choose to celebrate Pentecost or any other feast day it is ok to do so as long as you make it clear that it is not an obligation.

For circumcised Jews it is a commandment. Those who are of the book of the law are required to do all of it.

Paul kept Pentecost but made it clear that the Gentiles were to do no such thing.

Acts 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

The early church contained both circumcised Jews and uncircumcised Gentiles. Actually, it still does.

Brasso 06-17-2011 10:46

There's only one Law Vic. It applies to Israel. How can Feast Days which depict Messiah not be applicable?

achysklic 06-17-2011 14:10

God never changes. If he had changed there would be a direct command from God Himself not to keep the feasts.

I can give you the verses in the new test where all the feast days were kept after Jesus died.

Also if you look at prophecy you will see those same feast days are being observed.

So what you are saying Vic is that God gave the feast days to the children of Israel forever, then done away with them through the new conv. then re-establishes those same feasts days that were to be kept forever to begin with ?

Also Vic nice slight of hand acts 20 and acts 21 are not talking about Keeping Gods Holy Days.

jjboogie 06-17-2011 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17508633)
God never changes. If he had changed there would be a direct command from God Himself not to keep the feasts.

I can give you the verses in the new test where all the feast days were kept after Jesus died.

Also if you look at prophecy you will see those same feast days are being observed.

So what you are saying Vic is that God gave the feast days to the children of Israel forever, then done away with them through the new conv. then re-establishes those same feasts days that were to be kept forever to begin with ?

Also Vic nice slight of hand acts 20 and acts 21 are not talking about Keeping Gods Holy Days.


The feasts and Sabbaths are everlasting as long as the covenant's in place.

Well the covenant is done away with! We have a new one! It's been around for 2,000 years now!

Vic Hays 06-17-2011 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17508633)
God never changes. If he had changed there would be a direct command from God Himself not to keep the feasts.

I can give you the verses in the new test where all the feast days were kept after Jesus died.

Also if you look at prophecy you will see those same feast days are being observed.

So what you are saying Vic is that God gave the feast days to the children of Israel forever, then done away with them through the new conv. then re-establishes those same feasts days that were to be kept forever to begin with ?

Also Vic nice slight of hand acts 20 and acts 21 are not talking about Keeping Gods Holy Days.

Sure the feast days were kept, just not an obligation for the Gentiles.

I didn't say it, the Jerusalem council said it and Paul said it.

If you understand that Jesus is our high priest under the New Covenant you would understand about the sanctuary service. Read the book of hebrews from about chapter 8-11.

Watch out for those forevers. The words used do not mean unending.

Galations 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Paul warned the Gentiles not to get caught up in the book opf the law.

Galatians 5:2-4 Behold, I paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effewct unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

achysklic 06-18-2011 07:38

So let's me use just one example of the feast days continueing on forever shall I.

The prophet says this in Zechariah 14:17 "It shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. {18} If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain." It doesn’t rain down there in Egypt anyway so they depend on the Nile River rising.

Verse 19: "This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles." This is not only a commanded festival, it has sanctions connected with it, if you don’t do this, then God is going to punish you for it.

Notice all the families of the earth will be keeping this feast.

So you think God gave this feast, done away with it under a new conv. then Gave it again?
Come on Vic you know better!

I can go on and on and show where these feasts (Sabbaths BTW) WERE never done away with.

I just find it strange how you embrace Gods weekly Sabbath and reject His annual Sabbaths. Kinda strange indeed.

biblefreak 06-18-2011 07:54

I have this funny feeling that one day, hopefully soon, when Christ comes for His Church that there will be one last awkward moment. In that moment, that twinkling of an eye, we will all with our eyes finally opened both collectively and individually say "Oh! Now I get it!"

Brasso 06-18-2011 08:17

Quote:

Galatians 5:2-4 Behold, I paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effewct unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You know very well that these two passages are speaking of justification by works. They have nothing to do with keeping the commandments, because this line of reasoning applies to any work, including the "10 Commandments".

Vic Hays 06-18-2011 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17511452)
So let's me use just one example of the feast days continueing on forever shall I.

The prophet says this in Zechariah 14:17 "It shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. {18} If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain." It doesn’t rain down there in Egypt anyway so they depend on the Nile River rising.

Verse 19: "This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles." This is not only a commanded festival, it has sanctions connected with it, if you don’t do this, then God is going to punish you for it.

Notice all the families of the earth will be keeping this feast.

So you think God gave this feast, done away with it under a new conv. then Gave it again?
Come on Vic you know better!

I can go on and on and show where these feasts (Sabbaths BTW) WERE never done away with.

I just find it strange how you embrace Gods weekly Sabbath and reject His annual Sabbaths. Kinda strange indeed.

The weekly Sabbath was from creation. The book of the law was added because of transgression.

The yearly sanctuary cycle was done away with to institute the New Covenant. The Feast of Tabernacles will be kept, but only one time just as the sacrifice of Jesus was only one time, not over and over as in the tabernacle service with lambs and goats.

Here is the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles in the New Jerusalem. Yes, all families of the earth will be keeping it:

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

achysklic 06-18-2011 09:41

As for the new conv. Vic read this prophecy about it.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Notice Vic God says His Sabbaths not Sabbath.

So you see His new cov. includes all His Sabbaths both weekly and annually!

Vic better read the prophecy concerning the feast of tabernacles again it's not a one time thing, it happen once a yr every yr.

Vic the annaul Sabbaths are Sabbaths of the Lord also. Refuse them if you will but you might as well keep sunday also


Is there any logic to the idea that even though the Bible states the Holy Days will be kept in the Millennium, there is no necessity for us to keep them today? A look at the Old Testament tells us, without doubt, the Holy Days will be observed during the Millennium (Zechariah 14:16–19, Ezekiel 45:21, 25). Their observance during this time period demonstrates that they have not been abrogated. The same is true of the weekly Sabbath, for it, too, will be observed during the Millennium (Ezekiel 46:3).

achysklic 06-18-2011 10:04

The entire Sermon on the Mount clearly shows Jesus did "magnify the law, and make it honourable" (Isaiah 42:21). He brought it up to the spiritual level which God intended from the beginning. He "filled it full." And now, with the help of the Holy Spirit, man is capable of obeying it in its spiritual intent (Hebrews 8:10, Galatians 5:24). The New Covenant indeed magnified the Old! The New Covenant is not a "separate package" from the Old. The New Covenant is the expansion of the Old Covenant.


Paul did not merely attend the festivals. Acts 18:21 says, referring to a statement made by Paul, ". . . I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem. . . ." "Keep" is the Greek poiesai, from poieo, meaning "to keep, celebrate" (Analytical Greek Lexicon, by Harper, p. 332). In Acts 20:16, Paul states, ". . . he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost." "To be" is the Greek genesthai, from ginomai. The Analytical Greek Lexicon by Harper (p. 79) says that the meaning of the word with respect to festivals is "to be kept, celebrated, solemnized as festivals." It would have been purposeless for Paul to have attended the festivals if he did not keep them. And if there were no need for Christians to keep the Holy Days, Paul certainly set an improper example—one that would have most surely led to confusion among the disciples. Those who say Paul did not keep the feasts find it difficult to explain what Paul was doing attending the feasts—for he did not both keep and not keep them.

The fact that Christ and Paul observed the Holy Days is ample proof they were not abrogated by the New Covenant; they are an essential part of the New Covenant. Both Christ and Paul set an example for us to follow (I Peter 2:21, I John 2:6, I Corinthians 11:1, Philippians 4:9). Those who follow Christ will keep the Holy Days.

achysklic 06-18-2011 14:41

Ok one last quick question for you Vic.

If Gods Holy Days were only part of the old cov. The why was the early church keeping the Day of Pentecost when God gave the Holy Spirit to mankind?

jjboogie 06-18-2011 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17512822)
Ok one last quick question for you Vic.

If Gods Holy Days were only part of the old cov. The why was the early church keeping the Day of Pentecost when God gave the Holy Spirit to mankind?


Because Jesus told them to stay in Jerusalem until they are clothed with power from on high!

To inaugurate the NT church!

Besides it was perfectly ok for true Israel to observe the Jewish holidays and traditions!

Remember the early church was all Jewish for several years!

It would have been wrong for them to try and force Gentile Christians to observe those holidays since they were for Israelites.

achysklic 06-18-2011 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjboogie (Post 17512956)
Because Jesus told them to stay in Jerusalem until they are clothed with power from on high!

To inaugurate the NT church!

Besides it was perfectly ok for true Israel to observe the Jewish holidays and traditions!

Remember the early church was all Jewish for several years!

It would have been wrong for them to try and force Gentile Christians to observe those holidays since they were for Israelites.

Are you serious?

THEY ARE GODS FEASTS not the Israelites. (or the jews as you put it) (BTW not all Israelites are jews)

His Sabbaths!

If they were no longer to keep Gods Holy Days( not the jews) This would have been the perfect time to give a sermon on not no longer keeping them wouldn't it?

But oh wait, no sermon was EVER given, no command was EVER recorded in the new test was it?

In fact read on a few chapters in acts and you will see the early church keeping the other Holy Days of God.....Strange huh?

Man cannot change God, for God to change there has to be a command given, also Jesus kept all the Holy Days ( since He gave them) and Paul stated he did everything Jesus did. If Paul didn't I wouldn't believe a word he said!

Kingarthurhk 06-18-2011 16:53

Collosians 2:16-23, " <SUP>16</SUP> Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. <SUP id=en-NIV-29512 class=versenum>17</SUP> These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. <SUP id=en-NIV-29513 class=versenum>18</SUP> Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. <SUP id=en-NIV-29514 class=versenum>19</SUP> They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
<SUP id=en-NIV-29515 class=versenum>20</SUP> Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: <SUP id=en-NIV-29516 class=versenum>21</SUP> “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? <SUP id=en-NIV-29517 class=versenum>22</SUP> These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. <SUP id=en-NIV-29518 class=versenum>23</SUP> Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

So, the law of ordinances and feast days are no longer required. You are right _THE_ Sabbath day is still in effect as it has been from the foundation of the world, but the special Sabbath festivals, New Moon celebrations, are no longer required. The ceremonial aspects that point to Christ or the law of ordinances put in place by men and Moses are not in effect. What is still in effect is clearly illuminated in the decalogue.

I appreciate your religious predilections and understand the doctrines of the World Wide Church of God, who still keep the festivals, but it states clearly we are not to judge others regarding them. I do not judge you.

achysklic 06-18-2011 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk (Post 17513259)
Collosians 2:16-23, " <SUP>16</SUP> Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. <SUP id=en-NIV-29512 class=versenum>17</SUP> These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. <SUP id=en-NIV-29513 class=versenum>18</SUP> Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. <SUP id=en-NIV-29514 class=versenum>19</SUP> They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
<SUP id=en-NIV-29515 class=versenum>20</SUP> Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: <SUP id=en-NIV-29516 class=versenum>21</SUP> “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? <SUP id=en-NIV-29517 class=versenum>22</SUP> These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. <SUP id=en-NIV-29518 class=versenum>23</SUP> Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

So, the law of ordinances and feast days are no longer required. You are right _THE_ Sabbath day is still in effect as it has been from the foundation of the world, but the special Sabbath festivals, New Moon celebrations, are no longer required. The ceremonial aspects that point to Christ or the law of ordinances put in place by men and Moses are not in effect. What is still in effect is clearly illuminated in the decalogue.

I appreciate your religious predilections and understand the doctrines of the World Wide Church of God, who still keep the festivals, but it states clearly we are not to judge others regarding them. I do not judge you.

I am in no way affiliated with WWCG. I follow the teachin gs of Jesus only.

I am not judging SDA, but to say we keep the weekly Sabbath and ignore Gods other Sabbaths is strange to me. Kinda fence riding so to speak.

I agree with alot of the things you and Vic say...I have great respect for you guys. I am just confused as to why you only adhear to part of Gods laws?

Brasso 06-18-2011 17:52

The Law that was given for transgression wasn't the Torah. It was the Mosaic Covenant, to include the Tabernacle Law. The first time Moses went up to the Mountain he only received the Torah. The second time he received the Law of the Tabernacle.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

It was the sacrifices and burnt offerings that were added.

The Torah, including the ordinances, are forever for all Israel. If you believe in Messiah, you ARE Israel.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

jjboogie 06-18-2011 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by achysklic (Post 17513197)
Are you serious?

Are you? ;-)

Quote:

THEY ARE GODS FEASTS not the Israelites. (or the jews as you put it) (BTW not all Israelites are jews)
Same difference to me and I know not all Israelites are Jews however all Israelites are Israelites and that was my point.


Quote:

If they were no longer to keep Gods Holy Days( not the jews) This would have been the perfect time to give a sermon on not no longer keeping them wouldn't it?
Perfect time? Actually just the opposite! What better way to turn people off right off the bat!

This is about Jesus! Besides I did not say they were no longer to keep God's Holy Days but that they were no longer a requirement in order to have a covenant relationship with God! That's the context!

Quote:

But oh wait, no sermon was EVER given, no command was EVER recorded in the new test was it?
Sure there was!

Quote:

In fact read on a few chapters in acts and you will see the early church keeping the other Holy Days of God.....Strange huh?
Not strange at all! Much expected from faithful Jews of the time! Plus see my earlier point on Holy Days.

Quote:

Man cannot change God, for God to change there has to be a command given, also Jesus kept all the Holy Days ( since He gave them) and Paul stated he did everything Jesus did. If Paul didn't I wouldn't believe a word he said!

Plenty of commands given by Paul.

Of course Jesus kept them! Jesus was a faithful obedient Jew under the Old Covenant!


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