Glock Talk

Glock Talk (http://glocktalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Survival/Preparedness Forum (http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=151)
-   -   Katrina Weapon Confiscations - What really happened? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1358619)

Aceman 07-27-2011 07:48

Katrina Weapon Confiscations - What really happened?
 
I'd like to know this. Honestly, during a Katrina SHTF - easily imaginable 200 Yards from Tampa Bay - I can't imagine that my guns would be confiscated. But I can imagine scenarios where they would be as well.

Me on my property being completely non-threatening (other than holding a weapon); No way.

Me brandishing out on the street in a public area; No surprise there.

Me on my property shooting a warning shot (or three); Perhaps.

So what really happened. As much as I am a "not worth dying for" sort of person, I don't know that if you came to my home if I'd be giving up guns in that situation.

As an LEO under orders - would you carry it out? I think I would have to SERIOUSLY question that order. It seems dangerous, foolish, and bound to cause more problems than it would solve.

So what really went down there - no 'hearsay' or speculation please....

AK_Stick 07-27-2011 10:23

No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.


The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.

quake 07-27-2011 10:24

There were some home-shot videos at the time; don't know if they'd still be on youtube or anywhere available.

B.Reid 07-27-2011 10:24

:wow:

FryCook 07-27-2011 12:03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L9Wu...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNad3...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tbp1...eature=related

UtahBen 07-27-2011 12:21

Listen to these episodes of Gun Talk. Get the book,"Great New Orlean's Gun Grab".

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?...&Submit=Search

engineer151515 07-27-2011 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick (Post 17690032)
No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.


The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.

The "orders" were certainly confusing.

The results are on record.


My outline:

NOLA city government had a concern, post disaster, that firearms in abandoned houses were easy pickings for criminal elements. Many homes were abandoned due to damage and evacuation order. Into this environment, national guard troops arrived from nationwide - from states with varying restrictions on guns - which seemed to influence the rational of the decisions made by different groups. You also had an overwhelmed and possibly confused Chief of Police standing up in front of a microphone and stating that nobody will have guns, only LEO will have firearms.

This resulted in:

A house-to-house search for firearms. Some occupied homes, where the home-owners objected, experienced detainment (via handcuffs) while the premise was being searched. One 58 year old grandmother, Patricia Konie - was take-down tackled on camera after producing her firearm (in a non-threatening manner) at the request of California LEO. The take-down was shocking (even the you-tube version is edited. I remember the original broadcast) Konie was injured and force-ably removed from her home. The last I heard, her lawsuit was in legal-limbo and she no longer resided in NOLA.

There were also car searches of people evacuating the city. People were asked if there were any firearms (even packaged and stored). Confiscated items destroyed on the spot. One family reported loosing some treasured heirloom firearms this way in spite of pleading with the officers. They were smashed at curbside.

Add to this confusing mix - Blackwater was called in to help patrol the streets. They were armed - I do not know if they had just semi-auto or full auto weapons. There were reports of sporadic sniping events and at least one shoot-out with casualties on a bridge.


At the end of this, no records were kept. Collected firearms were "stored" (with the City denying their existence) until the NRA filed a lawsuit against the City of New Orleans where-as people who could prove ownership could at least attempt to recover their firearms. The percentage of recovered firearms was very low. Essentially, you had to try to find it, prove you owned it, and pass a background check. (Exact details varied as the lawsuit progressed and City / NRA arguments went back and forth with respect to court order compliance). Many firearms were destroyed by improper storage (severe rust) and some finer examples just "disappeared".


This is just scratching the surface of the story (by memory - so don't skewer me on the details). You should be able to find much more info on the event.
This book is a reference
http://www.amazon.com/Great-New-Orle...1796422&sr=8-2

cowboy1964 07-27-2011 13:51

I believe the standard line is "I lost all of mine in a recent boating accident".

1 old 0311 07-27-2011 13:56

See you REALLY didn't see those videos. The Posse Comitatis act of 1887 PROHIBITS using Federal troops, or those under Fed direction, of any police duties.
So you really didn't see the National Guard WORKING WITH POLICE TO CONFISCATE weapons. The Feds wouldn't ignore laws would they?:whistling::whistling:

Bilbo Bagins 07-27-2011 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick (Post 17690032)
No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.


The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.


+1

After what happened during Katrina, The house passed the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (The Vitter Admendment) making gun grabbing during a disaster illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitter_Amendment

The problem was there was too many Chiefs, and way too many out of state Indians, during a major SHTF event.

AK_Stick 07-27-2011 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by engineer151515 (Post 17690838)
The "orders" were certainly confusing.

The results are on record.




Yes and no.


We know some of what happened. There are lots of things that went on, that aren't public knowledge, things that were covered up, swept under the rug, or simply never reported.


Like I said, we'll never know the whole story of what went on.

There was good, there was bad.

Javelin 07-27-2011 15:16

Government raped citizens of their 2nd Amendment rights. That is illegal on so many levels. Thank God that no one was hurt. Had this happened to someone that is Pro 2-A, trained, and equipped it could have been grizzly.

jdavionic 07-27-2011 16:19

I believe that we've had some on this forum who were involved. So tagged for interest.

squirreld 07-27-2011 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahBen (Post 17690537)
Listen to these episodes of Gun Talk. Get the book,"Great New Orlean's Gun Grab".

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?...&Submit=Search

We have many of those books for sale still. Unfortunately, we pulled the link off our website,
www.buckeyefirearms.org

PM me if your interested and we can do a paypal.

emt1581 07-27-2011 17:07

As far as the "casualty" on the bridge, IIRC it was a MENTALLY HANDICAPPED guy and his brother just trying to cross that bridge to get to safety. Police told them to turn back and they refused. The MH brother was shot and killed. Again, this is what I remember from seeing the story in a news special a year or so later.

Now as to what happened and such...

Police confiscated guns. The citizens did not put up much of a fight. That old lady in her kitchen kinda proved the point of the citizens being in the right and the police being in the wrong. No LE were shot or killed. From what I understand there was ALREADY a law in place the forbade the gun confiscations but it happened anyway.

We've talked about this dozens of times here. It either ends up in a flame war or everyone gets real quiet. So I'll go ahead and ask it...

Would you really have resisted? Would you shoot police officers (even though they were breaking the law in trying to take your guns)? Do you think the fact that LE was breaking the law would matter or save you from the needle IF you survived?

What this really comes down to is...are you prepared to die for what you believe is right? There are those that say get out of dodge ahead of time or ASAP but sometimes that just isn't possible (this point usually turns into a pissing match as well).

I actually asked in Cop Talk or somewhere else what a citizen should do and it turned out that, although a cop might be doing something illegal, you still cannot legally shoot them in self-defense. Instead you are to hand over your guns and comply, then pray the case doesn't get buried in civil court later on...

Now if our founding fathers had done that, I'm pretty sure we'd all be subjects and speaking in funny accents.

-Emt1581

ArmoryDoc 07-27-2011 17:42

"...you gotta know when to hold'em. Know when to fold'em. Know when to walk away, know when to run..."

Each scenario is individual in nature. Each has to reconcile when and where the line is drawn and when enough's enough. Lines are being drawn every day. On both sides. It was interesting to watch it unfold and see the actions of both during the aftermath. What would I have done ?

Well, they are the government and after all, they are here to help. ;)

kirgi08 07-27-2011 18:35

I wasn't there,but I believe my reaction ta "forced" home searches would have a bad ending.'08.

UneasyRider 07-27-2011 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirgi08 (Post 17692086)
I wasn't there,but I believe my reaction ta "forced" home searches would have a bad ending.'08.

We don't open the door for anyone in that situation (and most others) no matter who it is. If somebody forces entry into my house they better have a warrant.

kirgi08 07-27-2011 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by UneasyRider (Post 17692193)
We don't open the door for anyone in that situation (and most others) no matter who it is. If somebody forces entry into my house they better have a warrant.

That's what I mean,you couldn't breach my homes door without a vehicle assistance.That being said it would more than likely get real ugly real fast.I just can't fathom the way the "law" was thrown out the window during this event.Although in this situation/a MASSIVE hurricane inbound we would've bailed 72 hrs before land fall.I grew up in southern FLA and I've seen my share of storms.

.Gub on both the state/fed level fumbled the whole event.They shoulda evaced a lot sooner and the way the wasted/ignored the resources they had available was criminal.I could go on,the point being is that .gov agencies had the means ta change the outcome and were too scared of lawsuits and took the position of cowardice,instead of nutting up and trying ta save lives.'08.

RMTactical 07-27-2011 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by UneasyRider (Post 17692193)
We don't open the door for anyone in that situation (and most others) no matter who it is. If somebody forces entry into my house they better have a warrant.

That may be the best answer.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:14.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2013, Glock Talk, All Rights Reserved.