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-   -   Prophets of Doom - water shortages (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1365097)

MajorAmby 08-25-2011 06:26

Prophets of Doom - water shortages
 
Don't know if anyone has seen this. Apparently it's been out for a while, but just saw it last night for the first time. Here's a Youtube link (it's not the best quality, but at least you can watch it online for free)...

For those that want the short version, they had 6 guys talking about end of the world scenarios mainly focusing on the U.S. They were talking about things like peak oil, financial collapse, nuclear terrorism, artificial intelligence, over-population and water shortage.

They came to the consensus that the most pressing issues is the water shortages issue. But I just don't think they made their case for the water shortage issue... sure, it wins the 'most scary scenario' award, but they only threw a few numbers out there and nothing majorly comprehensive to show that it is a true imminent threat. I just don't see it. I know there are local issues, such as with droughts, and even southern California's main water supply is coming from afar... but I don't see it the way they do.

Anyone else find any issues with it / support it?

Bolster 08-25-2011 08:40

Have not watched...but...while water shortage would be dire, frightening, and mortal, solar stills actually work pretty darned well. Awhile back I posted a very small still design here (.12 meter squared) that put out 3 cups of pure in one day. Scale that up to one meter and you'd be well set for survival. And there's an awful lot of water in the ocean, which Al Gore is telling us, is getting fuller not emptier.

R_W 08-25-2011 08:52

They are right. Much of the infrastructure is old, fragile, and running at or over capacity. And there are a lot of pumping stations along the way that need power.

Most Americans could survive for months on internal fat reserves, but without water they will shrivel up fast. The thing that moves it to the top of the list is the fact it is physically impossible to evacuate people out or truck in water fast enough if NYC or LA have an event.

MajorAmby 08-25-2011 11:07

It still doesn't really address the issue they brought up, which is the entire planet running out of water. Personally, I don't even know how that's possible since moisture has to go somewhere, doesn't just disappear. As long as we are able to tap the source in which it goes to (atmosphere, oceans, wells), I don't see how we will run out of water entirely as a planet.

cyrsequipment 08-25-2011 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorAmby (Post 17826572)
It still doesn't really address the issue they brought up, which is the entire planet running out of water. Personally, I don't even know how that's possible since moisture has to go somewhere, doesn't just disappear. As long as we are able to tap the source in which it goes to (atmosphere, oceans, wells), I don't see how we will run out of water entirely as a planet.

As long as we have an atmosphere, we'll have about the same amount of water we have now...

If we don't have an atmosphere, well then we won't need to worry about drinking.

MajorAmby 08-25-2011 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrsequipment (Post 17826651)
As long as we have an atmosphere, we'll have about the same amount of water we have now...

If we don't have an atmosphere, well then we won't need to worry about drinking.

That's my theory. But I'm not sure why these "experts" came to the consensus that water was the most pressing imminent issue.

bdcochran 08-25-2011 14:11

Water is the most pressing issue and here is why.

1. More water in the west has been allocated by laws and agreements than actually exists, even on a regular basis.

2. Water is priced differently to urban users and farmers because of contracts and laws.
If farmers "paid" the same rates as urban dwellers, there would be no cotton, hay, alfalfa or mellons grown in California.

3. Points 2 and 3 are more important than the bs that is fed to people by the politicians that you should conserve water, recycle water and so forth.

MajorAmby 08-25-2011 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdcochran (Post 17827229)
Water is the most pressing issue and here is why.

1. More water in the west has been allocated by laws and agreements than actually exists, even on a regular basis.

2. Water is priced differently to urban users and farmers because of contracts and laws.
If farmers "paid" the same rates as urban dwellers, there would be no cotton, hay, alfalfa or mellons grown in California.

3. Points 2 and 3 are more important than the bs that is fed to people by the politicians that you should conserve water, recycle water and so forth.

That still doesn't mean that the entire planet will run out of water. Is anyone even reading my posts? lol

R_W 08-25-2011 15:14

We won't run out, but we are running out of cheap DRINKING water. Desalinators are not cheap.

kirgi08 08-25-2011 15:46

Water is life,it's the most important prep one can have.Thats why we spent so much on it.'08.

cowboy1964 08-25-2011 16:05

Solar stills and desalination plants aren't going to help when there are billions of people short of water for drinking and farming. Desalination plants take ridiculous amounts of electric power, which we are also running short off even before adding new desalination plants.

The Great Lake states may be the place to be in 100 years.

TangoFoxtrot 08-26-2011 02:47

Potable water shortages for the billions on earth have always been a concern.

off road 08-26-2011 03:13

Water is the most crucial thing in the arid southwest. You turn off the tap (earthquake), and folks will be dying within days! If you don't live in the desert, you will have difficulty comprehending a situation where there exist few if any rivers or streams to fall back on for an emergency water supply. You break the water mains supplying water from outside, and down the powerlines so there isn't any way to pump groundwater wells anymore, and it's all over. Plus, no water to fight fires....so brushland, forests, and whole neighborhoods burn on and on.

The climate cycles about every 10 years. There will be a series of about 5 dry years, followed by a series of 5 wet years. Last winter was happily very unusually wet....

For me personally, the most important 'survivalist' thing that I do is live at the base of a large mountain range (~12,000'), that gets lots of snow (10-20 feet some years)! Even in the dry years, there are always flowing streams and springs that can be relied on, if the municipal water supply fails. This is what 'preparedness' is in the desert!

schild 08-26-2011 05:20

The Great Lakes contain 90% of the fresh water in the world, someday people will be fighting over that water.

pugman 08-29-2011 13:48

Its a simple numbers game.

There are on average 140,000,000 births and 57,000,000 deaths each year; if you figure each person needs about a gallon of water each day just to survive this means they need to come up an additional 30 billion gallons of drinkable water each year.

If you figure each person around the globe on average "uses" 80-100 gallons of water a day this is an increase of 2.4-3.0 trillion gallons of potable water each year.

Its not that water disappears-its just harder to get clean fast enough, to the people who want it, cheap enough.

racerford 08-29-2011 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by schild (Post 17829638)
The Great Lakes contain 90% of the fresh water in the world, someday people will be fighting over that water.

Do you have a source for that statistic? There must be some sort of qualifier on that. So they have 9 times more fresh water than the Mississippi, Amazon, Colorado, Nile, Yellow rivers and all the other rivers and lakes of the would, and all the glaciers, polar ice caps, and the atmosphere combined?

The oceans are filled with fresh water, it just has a few salts and other impurites mixed in, that can be removed.


I found one source that indicates the great Lakes contain 90% of the US' fresh water. Even that is dubious, as a good portion of the Great Lakes belongs to Canada. That same sources indicates they contain 20% of the World's Fersh Water.

Other sources indicate 2/3s of the world's fresh water is ice. Of the liquid Fresh Water, the bulk is underground, not surface water.

pugman 08-29-2011 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerford (Post 17845638)
Do you have a source for that statistic? There must be some sort of qualifier on that. So they have 9 times more fresh water than the Mississippi, Amazon, Colorado, Nile, Yellow rivers and all the other rivers and lakes of the would, and all the glaciers, polar ice caps, and the atmosphere combined?

The oceans are filled with fresh water, it just has a few salts and other impurites mixed in, that can be removed.


I found one source that indicates the great Lakes contain 90% of the US' fresh water. Even that is dubious, as a good portion of the Great Lakes belongs to Canada. That same sources indicates they contain 20% of the World's Fersh Water.

Other sources indicate 2/3s of the world's fresh water is ice. Of the liquid Fresh Water, the bulk is underground, not surface water.

I think the stat he was going for is 7/8 of the world's fresh water resides in fresh water lakes (per wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_water#Source

And about 84% of North America's surface fresh water and 21% of the world's total fresh water per the epa resides in the Great lakes

http://www.epa.gov/greatlakes/basicinfo.html

However, this fight has already started. I do remember several years ago here in Wisconsin some law was passed when I believe California was looking to have great lakes water brought in?

Edit: I believe its the potential lawsuit from California which caused several states to form the Great Lakes Compact in 2008.

BORNGEARHEAD 08-29-2011 19:07

The Chinese are already shipping out our water from the Great Lakes. It isn't coming back.

Ruble Noon 08-29-2011 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BORNGEARHEAD (Post 17846384)
The Chinese are already shipping out our water from the Great Lakes. It isn't coming back.

I have heard rumors of this. Do you have any credible links?

Spiffums 08-29-2011 19:37

History or Discover is like the premium movie channels...... they re run the same shows over and over you can probably find it on.


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