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-   -   G21 vs G17 for Home Defense in regards to SOUNDWAVES (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1402602)

SystemaEncephale 02-17-2012 23:04

G21 vs G17 for Home Defense in regards to SOUNDWAVES
 
Alright guys, I understand the pro's and con's to many of the popular handgun cartridges for home defense use. However, what I don't understand is how the calibers compare in regards to sound in a home defense environment.

What I mean by that is, I have a G21 and a G17 and I prefer the 17 for home defense for 2 reasons. First being it's capacity, second being it isn't nearly as loud as a .45.

I have read many posts where people are considering a .45 Glock for their home defense needs. Yet I never read that one of their concerns is that of how loud the gun is once fired.

I've fired my 21 outside, after the first shot my left ear is ringing. If I fire 2 mags, my left ear will ring for days. That is outside. If I fired it inside, the sound would be all most twice as loud.

It doesn't seem smart to have a firearm for home defense that will cause you to go deaf after firing it.

So, after all that ranting, am I missing something here or does this just simply not occur in most people's minds?

PrecisionRifleman 02-17-2012 23:16

I think that will be the least of your concern if you need to fire on someone in your home. When the dogs start barking and I'm concerned about someone being in the back yard or something like that I always favor grabbing the 870 12 gauge.

Falcon78 02-17-2012 23:18

A Glock 26 firing 147 grain rounds will be less loud than the 17 because it will be around 1000fps and therefore subsonic. The .45 is also subsonic but the larger diameter outweighs the difference of the sonic boom.

Glock Authority 02-17-2012 23:28

Well if you're shooting outside, I would definitely be wearing ear protection and I don't think it will matter much if you shoot a 9mm or .45 indoors because your ears are gonna ring anyway and like the other guy said, that's probably the least of your worries at that point...

barth 02-17-2012 23:52

I'm pretty sensitive to loud noises.
At the range I upgraded to 33db ultra ear muffs because the sound bothered me.

Unfortunately,
I've had the misfortune of having to fire a 40 S&W, in a small closed room, with no ear protection.

The weirdness was is wasn't loud at all.
No pain, no ringing - nothing.
Something about adrenaline I guess.

This whole thing about how loud your gun is in a house is highly overrated.
Use what you're proficient with and don't worry about that...

SolidBrass 02-17-2012 23:56

If I'm shooting at a man in my home I don't care how loud it is myself. Loud will scare the hell out of them and while they lay on the floor bleeding out because I used the massive .45 or 10mm his ears will be ringing too.

On that note. I know nothing about good ear protection. What is the best sub $100 earmuff noise suppressors ear muffs?

SystemaEncephale 02-17-2012 23:57

I don't mean it as a concern but more along the lines of having all your senses intact as much as possible. I am not sure if firing a .45 vs a 9mm would be the difference in causing the average person to go def or not in a home defense situation. But if it is then wouldn't it be better to be able to hear your surroundings when you are in such a situation?

barth 02-17-2012 23:58

Pro-Ears Ultra 33 Earmuffs (NRR 33 dB)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidBrass (Post 18595780)
I know nothing about good ear protection. What is the best sub $100 earmuff noise suppressors ear muffs?

Pro-Ears Ultra 33 Earmuffs (NRR 33 dB) $36.49 + shipping
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/187...uffs-nrr-33-db
http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...553/553514.jpg

SystemaEncephale 02-17-2012 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by barth (Post 18595766)
I'm pretty sensitive to loud noises.
At the range I upgraded to 33db ultra ear muffs because the sound bothered me.

Unfortunately,
I've had the misfortune of having to fire a 40 S&W, in a small closed room, with no ear protection.

The weirdness was is wasn't loud at all.
No pain, no ringing - nothing.
Something about adrenaline I guess.

This whole thing about how loud your gun is in a house is highly overrated.
Use what you're proficient with and don't worry about that...


That's really interesting and a valid point. I didn't consider the effect of adrenaline.

9mm +p+ 02-18-2012 03:24

Ummm, if you are in a real situation you will not hear the report, trust me.

gdiddy 02-18-2012 04:21

In spite of what you think, the report from any caliber insdie most modern insulated homes is much less than you will expect. Some time ago, I had a ND with a 9mm indoors. I was surprised at the softness of the report. A family member standing in the yard did not even hear it. There are so many items in a home that tend to absorb sound that your concerns are not founded. I also agree with those that say when fired at a time of great stress, the caliber or decibels of the report will be of little importance.

Sammael 02-18-2012 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+ (Post 18596041)
Ummm, if you are in a real situation you will not hear the report, trust me.

This.

alwaysshootin 02-18-2012 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+ (Post 18596041)
Ummm, if you are in a real situation you will not hear the report, trust me.

This^^^^^^

Use a G20 hunting, and even though I carry plugs, didn't have time to install them. No notice of loud report. Although outside, imagine that in a life or death scenario, the report will go almost unnoticed!

eracer 02-18-2012 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemaEncephale (Post 18595793)
That's really interesting and a valid point. I didn't consider the effect of adrenaline.

Check out Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's book, 'On Combat'.

I don't agree with everything he writes, but it's a good book, full of data about that very subject, namely, altered senses during high-stress combat situations.

As far as shooting without hearing protection in other situations - keep it up and you definitely won't need to worry about, because you will lose your hearing, whether you're shooting a 9mm, .45, or .300 Win Mag.

G30Mike 02-18-2012 05:18

Mossberg 12 gauge, 2 shots in a kitchen/hallway with high ceilings. Still heard my buddy say "what the f just happened".

Adrenaline and hightened awareness does amazing things to the body. I believe its called auditory exclusion.

3/4Flap 02-18-2012 06:57

The whole issue is irrelevant.

Before we razed the old house I spent a day wandering about inside it with my Ithaca 87 shotgun and a pile of various shells ranging from light target/quail to 3" Magnum buckshot loads. I wore heavy safety glasses and an old Civil Defence helmet but no hearing protection.

I don't recall how many rounds I fired that day but it was quite enough to pretty well tear the place apart.

And after all that I can still hear her tell me to take out the garbage...

Presscheck40 02-18-2012 07:19

Statistically when a police officer has had to use his or her weapon they could not tell you how many rounds were fired or even if it made a sound. Your body shuts Down minor body functions to supply blood to major muscles to preform. We had an officer involved in a shooting inside a small house and when asked how many rounds were fired she answered three come to find out it was 13 and all were within an 8 inch group. Another officer in a different shooting was asked how many rounds he fired and he answered 10. Come to find out he fired 3 and they were all into the utility poll hi was using for cover.

3/4Flap 02-18-2012 07:36

I don't doubt Presschecks point at all.

A number of years ago I was involved in a fight with a bear. I had only a .44 revolver. The entire scene was total mayhem, with screaming of dogs, growling of bear, high speed movement of all involved. At one point in the fight I was mixed up with the bear at my feet and pushed the gun into its chest and fired what I thought were two rounds, then got the gun up to its head and pulled the trigger with nothing but a "CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK" being the result. As I tried to reload my then 13 or so year old son dove over my shoulder and more or less "bayoneted" the bear with his rifle, a 7x57R with a shot to its chest which finished the deal.

After the panting was over and we rehashed the whole affair he told me he distinctly heard what sounded like a 3-shot burst from our Stempel submachine gun when I fired into the chest of the bear.

What I "felt" and thought was "Boom-Boom" was actually "Boom-Boom-Boom".

I do not recall if I even heard the fast double action shots but if I did I certainly wasn't doing the simple math very well.

Like I said earlier, the whole issue is irrelevant unless you plan on shooting indoors regularly without hearing protection. My wife is pretty understanding of my gun nuttism, but even she takes a dim view of regular gunfire in the living room...

BulldawgGlock 02-18-2012 07:59

I'm not concerned at all about how "loud" my nightstand gun is. I feel pretty certain that in the event that I had to draw down on someone inside of my house, noise is going to be pretty far down on the priority list.

Landric 02-18-2012 08:10

While it is true that in the event of a high stress shooting you won't notice the report due to auditory exclusion, that doesn't mean your hearing won't be damaged. There are two basic solutions to this:

1- Get a suppressor for you home defense gun(s)

2- Have amplified hearing protection in the same spot as your HD gun, in the event you think it might be necessary, put on the hearing protection when you pick up the gun.


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