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-   -   S&W M&P 15 Sport v Colt 6920 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422995)

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 20:18

S&W M&P 15 Sport v Colt 6920
 
Well, as we discussed in prior threads, Louisiana Shooters Unlimited is purchasing a S&W M&P 15 Sport and a Colt 6920 for students to use during our carbine courses. We will take photos, record round counts, keep track of ammo types, document issues, and keep the rifles close together in terms of rounds down range. Every 1500 rounds or so, we will shoot the rifles for groups. Any thing else that we should measure or track over the life of the rifles to give an accurate review of the two rifles as we track their use in identical harsh training environments?

Thoughts?

arclight610 05-22-2012 20:26

Sounds neat. What is the purpose of this trial? Is it to see how the inexpensive Sport compares to a known standard?

bmoore 05-22-2012 20:29

I am looking forward to your test. What will they run for lube?

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by arclight610 (Post 18999991)
Sounds neat. What is the purpose of this trial? Is it to see how the inexpensive Sport compares to a known standard?

The purpose is to provide data so that people can accurately assess how well a couple of popular rifles might meet their needs. I also have a bushmaster xm-15 with 2200 rounds through it that I will throw into the rotation when the other rifles reach similar round counts.

WoodenPlank 05-22-2012 20:34

Track the following, too...

parts replacement, no matter how small (gas rings, extractors, spring, etc)
Round count when lubed
Round count when cleaned, and how much cleaning done (bolt wipe-down vs field cleaning vs full strip, soak and clean)

Also, try to keep types of ammo consistent across both weapons. Would be a lot issue if students had to use class-issued ammo in those two rifles.

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmoore (Post 19000004)
I am looking forward to your test. What will they run for lube?

Mobile 1 for lube. Corrosion X on the exterior steel surfaces.

WoodenPlank 05-22-2012 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney (Post 19000044)
Mobile 1 for lube. Corrosion X on the exterior steel surfaces.

Oh dear lord, please no.

Order a few bottles of Slip 2k EWL.

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank (Post 19000031)
Track the following, too...

parts replacement, no matter how small (gas rings, extractors, spring, etc)
Round count when lubed
Round count when cleaned, and how much cleaning done (bolt wipe-down vs field cleaning vs full strip, soak and clean)

Also, try to keep types of ammo consistent across both weapons. Would be a lot issue if students had to use class-issued ammo in those two rifles.

Students have to use my ammo if they use my rifles, so both rifles will use the same amount of the same stuff, but what is being shot will evolve over time as I rotate my ammo FIFO. Right now we are into the ammo we bought in 2008(Georgia Arms 55gr fmj), but if the next 6 months are like the last 6, we will be into 2012 ammo by Christmas.

cyphertext 05-22-2012 20:52

I look forward to the test as well. Do you have any expectation or a hypothesis as to how the Sport will hold up in your environment?

Hour13 05-22-2012 20:55

I'm definitely curious! The 6920 I expect shall perform beautifully. As many know, I am a fan of the Sport, for what it is intended for. I sincerely hope you guys put the screws to it, lol. Please don't puss out and tape the muzzles, etc. It'll be interesting to see "worst case" results from the lack of DC/FA.

Can't wait to see how the budget plinker holds up against the classic Colt!

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank (Post 19000056)
Oh dear lord, please no.

Order a few bottles of Slip 2k EWL.

Why would I use a lube none of my guys are familiar with and would have to learn how to use? Mobile 1 has given us 100% reliability in Bushies and Colt's, excepting only when we have tried steel cased ammo in an A-2 configured Colt H-Bar Sporter.

WoodenPlank 05-22-2012 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney (Post 19000140)
Why would I use a lube none of my guys are familiar with and would have to learn how to use? Mobile 1 has given us 100% reliability in Bushies and Colt's, excepting only when we have tried steel cased ammo in an A-2 configured Colt H-Bar Sporter.

Learn to use? :dunno:

One drop in each gas ring witness hole, one drop in the gas key, one on the cam pin, and a couple on a rag to wipe down the outside of the bolt carrier.

I know we don't always agree, but it's not like it's hard to lube an AR bolt, dude.

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext (Post 19000117)
I look forward to the test as well. Do you have any expectation or a hypothesis as to how the Sport will hold up in your environment?

I hope it will last at least 1/2 as long as the Colt, without having to spend too much to keep it running. We only charge $15 a day to rent one, while POI calls for 400 rounds/day.

Our cost on the Sport is $660, which means the break even round count is 17,600 plus 400 rounds for every $15 in replacement parts.

Cost on the Colt is $1191, break even round count is 31,760 plus 400 rounds for every $15 in parts.

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank (Post 19000170)
Learn to use? :dunno:

One drop in each gas ring witness hole, one drop in the gas key, one on the cam pin, and a couple on a rag to wipe down the outside of the bolt carrier.

I know we don't always agree, but it's not like it's hard to lube an AR bolt, dude.

My guys are used to running 'em wetter than that, and I doubt that they are going to change to try out the latest in whiz bang super lubes. It wouldn't be hard to show 'em, but guys who have been doing something the same way for 20+ years (some for 40 +) are not going to change because some guy on the internet suggested it.

bigmoney890 05-22-2012 21:15

Definitely subscribed to this thread :popcorn:

WoodenPlank 05-22-2012 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney (Post 19000203)
My guys are used to running 'em wetter than that, and I doubt that they are going to change to try out the latest in whiz bang super lubes. It wouldn't be hard to show 'em, but guys who have been doing something the same way for 20+ years (some for 40 +) are not going to change because some guy on the internet suggested it.

Plenty of people out there that swear by SLIP 2k, myself included. Pat Rogers' infamous Filthy 14 was lubed exclusively with SLIP. Heck, I even have a bottle of EWL inbound from Bravo Company right now.

mixflip 05-22-2012 21:37

Our guys use automatic trans fluid. A few use EWL (state Trooper AR15s)

JimBianchi 05-22-2012 21:39

Interesting test.

Tagged

Matthew Courtney 05-22-2012 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank (Post 19000271)
Plenty of people out there that swear by SLIP 2k, myself included. Pat Rogers' infamous Filthy 14 was lubed exclusively with SLIP. Heck, I even have a bottle of EWL inbound from Bravo Company right now.

I'll tell you what, I'll tell the guys about the stuff and let 'em decide. Even though I own the place, it is run as a republic because I depend on everyone I work with. Will the slip2k stuff work on everything? One of my guys doesn't like having 2 bottles now. He nearly had a cow when we added corrosion x, but we are under 2 miles from salt water and have flooded with Gulf water twice since 2005, so rust is a major issue. If we add a third one he may pull a Socrates routine and drink it.

WoodenPlank 05-22-2012 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney (Post 19000327)
I'll tell you what, I'll tell the guys about the stuff and let 'em decide. Even though I own the place, it is run as a republic because I depend on everyone I work with. Will the slip2k stuff work on everything? One of my guys doesn't like having 2 bottles now. He nearly had a cow when we added corrosion x, but we are under 2 miles from salt water and have flooded with Gulf water twice since 2005, so rust is a major issue. If we add a third one he may pull a Socrates routine and drink it.

I've been using it everywhere I have needed oil-type lube of late, and it's been fantastic. Everything from my Mk. 18 to my shotgun and handguns all get it. It sticks around, doesn't cook off too quickly, doesn't evaporate during carry OR storage in a safe with dessicant.

At this point, the only other lube I will use is a grease for handgun slide rails and internals of my P7. The SLiP 2k is that damn good. Plus, you can adequately lube a BCG with about 5 drops, or soak it with about 8-10, so a 4oz bottle lasts quite a while. I still have well over half my 4oz bottle of S2K gun lube left over after a year of judicious use. It's getting relegated to handgun and shotgun duty (they get less oil than the AR) and the new EWL bottle is exclusively for AR use.


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