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-   -   Thots on 20 Gage/Loads as HDW? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1428609)

Gray_Rider 06-22-2012 16:20

Thots on 20 Gage/Loads as HDW?
 
Having thots about a 20 Gage as SD/HD. Or should I stay with 12 Gage? Gun will probably be a pump but love doubles.
Just wanted you guys' know how and thots on the subject.

Gray_Rider

Wil Ufgood 06-22-2012 16:29

http://lifeinthecastle.files.wordpre...pg?w=495&h=745

Gray_Rider 06-22-2012 17:30

A friend has killed many large deer and several 250#+ hogs with his using #4 buck.....Once, two large hogs were taken w/ one shot. (They were facing each other one about 3-4 feet behind. Head shot to both.) As an example of a killed deer, (taken with 20 gage #4 at about 30+ yards the pattern penetrated the rib cage, transversing the thoratic cavity and the pellets were found in the rib cage on the opposite side from impact area...instant kill. No problem with any other hogs being stopped either. One shot stops all. Thots?



Gray_Rider

countrygun 06-22-2012 17:39

If I could wave a magic wand and turn my social shotguns into 20 ga and have the amount of loads available that I have with the 12s, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Mas Ayoob made a good case for the 20 in his book and he made a good point. To paraphrase,

a centered pattern with either 12 or 20 and only your coroner will know the difference.

K.Kiser 06-22-2012 17:56

A 20 is redundantly powerful for home defense at home distances... It's easily found in #3 buck, but across a room less will have still devastating results ( I've seen it on things tougher than humans) ... The little youth pump 20's would make a fine HD weapon...

Buffering 06-22-2012 18:02

Hint: Remington Express Compact Jr.

Gray_Rider 06-22-2012 19:03

Sounds like the 12 gage is still the best choice for HD. Thanks for the input. I was considering a 20 because it would give my wife (who isn't a gun person and isn't my size or strength either) something a little more serious than a pistol but w/ less recoil than a 12 gage. Perhaps a 12 in a reduced recoil 00 round? She blanched when she watched me fire full sized 00 from my Winchester Defender, and refused to fire it. It was too big of a gun for her too. Too unwieldy, but she likes the coach double barrels. I thought a 20 Gage double or pump might make the difference.

Gray_Rider

From the amount of viewings of this thread, I'm not alone concerning this subject.

countrygun 06-22-2012 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray_Rider (Post 19119902)
Sounds like the 12 gage is still the best choice for HD. Thanks for the input. I was considering a 20 because it would give my wife (who isn't a gun person and isn't my size or strength either) something a little more serious than a pistol but w/ less recoil than a 12 gage. Perhaps a 12 in a reduced recoil 00 round? She blanched when she watched me fire full sized 00 from my Winchester Defender, and refused to fire it. It was too big of a gun for her too. Too unwieldy, but she likes the coach double barrels. I thought a 20 Gage double or pump might make the difference.

Gray_Rider


I have a bunch of social shotguns around and the wife bought about 1/2 of them and they are 12ga. the wife and I also have 20ga's for birds. My wife, even though of smaller stature likes her 12's with the "managed recoil/low recoil/tactical loads" especially her Winchester 1200 she compares the recoil to being similar to her much lighter Remington 870 youth 20, but the lighter pump handles faster for her.

ViennaGambit 06-22-2012 19:14

Whats a thot?

Gray_Rider 06-22-2012 19:44

Thot.....Thought.

Thanks countrygun. Your points are well presented and well taken. A 12 it will be with reduced recoil 00. Just want something she can handle if things get sticky and I'm either not available or something more serious is called for than a pistol that she can learn easily, present quickly, and will hopefully never be needed for a "social" issue.




Gray_Rider

AK_Stick 06-22-2012 19:55

Only issue with a 20 for a home defence gun, is the lesser amount of loads available for 20 gauge.

countrygun 06-22-2012 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray_Rider (Post 19120082)
Thot.....Thought.

Thanks countrygun. Your points are well presented and well taken. A 12 it will be with reduced recoil 00. Just want something she can handle if things get sticky and I'm either not available or something more serious is called for than a pistol that she can learn easily, present quickly, and will hopefully never be needed for a "social" issue.




Gray_Rider


A good choice and as AKstick points out it really is the choice of loads thing for us.

I might say thst the "Good" Chinese double 12 Coach gun is also a favorite of the Mrs. It is a lot heavier than our EAA Bounty hunter" double so it soaks up recoil and in an HD situation "packing weight" isn't an issue.


We have 6 "socials" and three "bird" shotguns so I take the topic to heart.

jb1911 06-22-2012 20:11

What is a "social" shotgun?

Buffering 06-22-2012 20:16

A social shotgun is like the difference between a studio and touring musician. I have no idea what that means but there is a difference.

tomski12 06-22-2012 21:32

I prosecuted a murder case where the defendant used a 20 ga shotgun. It only took one shot to be lethal.

countrygun 06-22-2012 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb1911 (Post 19120186)
What is a "social" shotgun?


It is a term we used for years before "tactical" came along. The common term was "riot gun" in the day, but since homeowners rarely faced riots, it didn't seem to fit. "Social" seemed to describe a tool used to influence the outcome of an unpleasant interpersonal social interaction.

AK_Stick 06-23-2012 04:08

IMO "Social" is a gun that has multiple purposes, where as the "tactical" and "hunting" guns are more single purpose.

vafish 06-23-2012 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick (Post 19120959)
IMO "Social" is a gun that has multiple purposes, where as the "tactical" and "hunting" guns are more single purpose.

A social shotgun is for encounters with other people, as opposed to a hunting shotgun that is used on animals.

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jb1911 06-23-2012 06:16

Thanks guys, that's what I thought it meant. I'm so old they are still riot guns to me.

DrewF86 06-23-2012 06:48

Quote:

The formulae I've been shown by the ammo companies I have dealt with for decades as one or another kind of gun editor for gun magazines show that the average 20-gauge shotgun load (five-eighths of an ounce of lead) will deliver to the shooter's body via his or her shoulder only 55% of the recoil as a one-ounce charge of lead from a 20-gauge. Yet the lead delivered on target at the same velocity from a 20-gauge is 62.5% of the payload brought to impact by the one-ounce charge from a 12-gauge.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Mr. Ayoob makes a pretty good argument for the 20ga which you can read above. Some type of shot, just less of it. If you can't kill something with a 20ga I really doubt you could kill it with a 12ga either. I'm currently trying to hunt down a Mossberg SA-20 'tactical' for my wife's home defense weapon.


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