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-   -   New to full power 10mm handloads (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1429227)

DarkShooter 06-25-2012 22:24

New to full power 10mm handloads
 
Im finally gonna work up some full power 10mm handloads for my stock Gen3 20. Ive previously only done FBI loads and 40's for my KKM Precision barrel.
Id like to get 1300fps with 180gr Gold Dots and XTP, and 1200fps with 200gr XTP and FMJ. These are max or near max loads from Speer #12 and Hornady #4 manuals.
Would I be ok with the stock barrel / recoil spring assembly, or should I get an aftermarket barrel/rsa right from the start? Im concerned about the brass smiles and havin a strong enough spring to prevent battering.
Im asking because these are max loads from the manuals, but milder than some loads ive seen suggested. Thx for the help.

TDC20 06-25-2012 23:40

Those are my loadings for 180gr and 200gr XTP's, and I have shot them out of my stock G20 barrel at those velocities (1300 and 1200fps respectively). I do use a 22lb Wolff recoil spring. I would add that I have only done this with Long Shot and 800-X, and I use standard CCI#300 primers for the loads. So it may not work or be safe with other powder/primer combinations.

If you don't have a chrono, you should stick with book loads and in any case, work up carefully (0.2gr increments) to your max. I strongly suggest weighing every charge at these velocities, as small errors in thrown charges can cause big problems. Especially 800-X, since it doesn't meter well, needs to be weighed every charge.

The brass does get worked a bit more in the stock barrel, but as long as it isn't glock smiled (and I haven't yet had a glock smile from the loads I mentioned here) you can get several reloads from your brass at these velocities with little worry.

One other thing, the consensus is that 180gr Gold Dots over expand at 1300fps. 180 XTP's are good to go at that speed, though.

WeeWilly 06-25-2012 23:47

I think you can reach those goals with the stock barrel. I run a 22lb and lately a 24lb captive ISMI RSA (from Glockmeister) when shooting at this level, no smiles ever. The springs seem to help keeping the slide off the frame and help with policing the brass, at the expense of greater felt recoil. For whatever reason the 24lb ISMI RSA seems to really change the recoil personality, it gets fairly jarring. Not full house 44RM jarring, but not the dreamy recoil the stock and to a lesser degree the 22lb spring provides.

I have settled on a more sedate 1225fps with 180XTP's as my everyday load. It gives me everything I want and with the 22lb spring, I still get a reasonable follow up and the frame is spared any battering.

Breadman03 06-26-2012 06:49

180 grain Rainier HP over 7.5 grains of Unique from my stock G29 clocked at 1074 average. Out of a G20, that would probably be in the ballpark of 1150fps.

That 7.5 was near the starting load. At max published load, I should be near 1150 from my barrel with the Unique. I'm going to try some 2400 next time I go out, since I have some and Speer rates it better than Unique for the 10mm. My next purchase is going to be Longshot due to the recommendations here and elsewhere.

DarkShooter 06-26-2012 08:53

Thanks for all the info. Im gonna order a 22lb rsa tonight, and get a pound of 800x locally. This seems like a great powder for the big 10.

Im gonna weigh every charge, just like handloading for my deer rifles when using stick powder, and slowly work up to max in the manual.


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DarkShooter 06-26-2012 08:57

I got some 2400 on hand as well. Seems like it has the right qualities to be a good 10mm powder, but seems like not many use it. It meters great thru a measure too.


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WeeWilly 06-26-2012 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkShooter (Post 19132458)
I got some 2400 on hand as well. Seems like it has the right qualities to be a good 10mm powder, but seems like not many use it. It meters great thru a measure too.


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I tried 2400 for the same reason, had some left laying around from my .357 loading days. I liked it a lot, for what ever reason, I got some of the best accuarcy, no weird flyers like back in the Model 19 days. The negative is I think the upside velocity wise is limited. Not as weak as faster powders, but decidedly below what a powder like 800x, AA#9, Blue Dot, etc. might deliver.

It is a fun caliber to load for, enjot it.

Yondering 06-26-2012 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkShooter (Post 19132458)
I got some 2400 on hand as well. Seems like it has the right qualities to be a good 10mm powder, but seems like not many use it. It meters great thru a measure too.


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Sure, it's a great powder, except it's too slow and bulky. Max loads are based on case volume, and will be several hundred fps slower than Blue Dot, Longshot, or AA9.

Personally I'd skip 800X and get a powder that's easier to work with.

Taterhead 06-26-2012 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yondering (Post 19132541)

Personally I'd skip 800X and get a powder that's easier to work with.

100% Agreed.

Taterhead 06-26-2012 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkShooter (Post 19131454)
Im finally gonna work up some full power 10mm handloads for my stock Gen3 20. Ive previously only done FBI loads and 40's for my KKM Precision barrel.
Id like to get 1300fps with 180gr Gold Dots and XTP, and 1200fps with 200gr XTP and FMJ. These are max or near max loads from Speer #12 and Hornady #4 manuals.
Would I be ok with the stock barrel / recoil spring assembly, or should I get an aftermarket barrel/rsa right from the start? Im concerned about the brass smiles and havin a strong enough spring to prevent battering.
Im asking because these are max loads from the manuals, but milder than some loads ive seen suggested. Thx for the help.


As with any barrel or platform setup, you can't know what is safe without doing careful load workups. I reduce the charge weights and work up in 0.2 - 0.3 grain increments. I load at least 5, and usually 10 at each charge weight to check for groups, function, and indications of excessive pressure. I also look for deviations on velocity, but that is down the list of concerns for pistol rounds. My practice is to shoot one round, collect the brass, inspect. Repeat.

As Murphy would have it, the one time I did not follow my normal loading and inspection process, I overlooked smiles. I got a bit lax. My powder increments were also bigger (0.5 grains). The next string the smiles were huge and primers were FLAT. I had shot a couple like that before noticing. I have never repeated that mistake. This was a load way below book max. It was with 800-X and 180 XTPs. All hand weighed and verified with check weights.

Bottom line, there is really no way to know what is safe without doing the workups - but that is true with an aftermarket barrel too. Things run differently in different setups. If you see smiles, you've gone too far.

1200 fps is attainable in my stock G20 with a 200 gr XTP over 13.0 grains of Accurate no. 9 (WLP primer) by following Hornady book data. That charge weight is between the maxes of Accurate Powders (12.5) and Hornady(13.2) published data.

DarkShooter 06-27-2012 05:50

Guys thanks for the great advice. Gonna get started this weekend.


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WeeWilly 06-27-2012 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taterhead (Post 19134832)
As with any barrel or platform setup, you can't know what is safe without doing careful load workups. I reduce the charge weights and work up in 0.2 - 0.3 grain increments. I load at least 5, and usually 10 at each charge weight to check for groups, function, and indications of excessive pressure. I also look for deviations on velocity, but that is down the list of concerns for pistol rounds. My practice is to shoot one round, collect the brass, inspect. Repeat.

As Murphy would have it, the one time I did not follow my normal loading and inspection process, I overlooked smiles. I got a bit lax. My powder increments were also bigger (0.5 grains). The next string the smiles were huge and primers were FLAT. I had shot a couple like that before noticing. I have never repeated that mistake. This was a load way below book max. It was with 800-X and 180 XTPs. All hand weighed and verified with check weights.

Bottom line, there is really no way to know what is safe without doing the workups - but that is true with an aftermarket barrel too. Things run differently in different setups. If you see smiles, you've gone too far.

1200 fps is attainable in my stock G20 with a 200 gr XTP over 13.0 grains of Accurate no. 9 (WLP primer) by following Hornady book data. That charge weight is between the maxes of Accurate Powders (12.5) and Hornady(13.2) published data.

Really excellent advice.

GotFour 06-27-2012 20:14

I've gotten rather used to all of my fingers and my blue eyes......you might get away with pushing the 10's limits on your not fully supported chamber, then again you might not. I shoot my reloads in a KKM barrel in which I have total confidence. $250 or so for an after market barrel will buy a lot more insurance than obamacare :supergrin:

SDGlock23 06-28-2012 19:39

Book max load (9.5gr) of Longshot will get you close to if not over 1300 fps w/180gr. I'm not a fan of "full power" 10mm in a stock barrel, since even some load that aren't even considered warm begin to bulge the brass pretty good. The 9.5gr Longshot load does well and the case bulge is there for sure, but not horrendous.

CanyonMan 06-28-2012 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDGlock23 (Post 19142157)
Book max load (9.5gr) of Longshot will get you close to if not over 1300 fps w/180gr. I'm not a fan of "full power" 10mm in a stock barrel, since even some load that aren't even considered warm begin to bulge the brass pretty good. The 9.5gr Longshot load does well and the case bulge is there for sure, but not horrendous.


Hey brother, I guess I am going to have to just jump in and finally try the LS powder with you other guys here. All I seem to read over here any more is LS LS LS, so Since I already have a pound I guess tomorrow I'll finally try it out.

(9.4/9.5) seems to be pretty standard from all I see here all the time, if I am wrong I can use some input from y'all on the LS powder with 180gr and 200gr XTP's and HC bullets as well.



I'll let y'all know how it goes. But what seems to be the favorite load with LS in the 180 gr and 200gr XTP's ?



Thanks
Stay safe amigo







CM

WeeWilly 06-28-2012 20:02

I liked Longshot a lot, I have even taken to using it in other calibers like 9mm. I think it might be one of the most cost effective powders for 10mm.

I didn't get to 1300fps with max book LS loads (9,5gr) out of my stock barrel using 180gr Hornaday HAP's. I was running WLP primers, so maybe had I used dedicated magnum primers (like CCI 350), maybe I would have gotten there. IIRC my best averages were like 1260fps.

I could get to 1300fps but it was over the line some, no smiles or excess bulges out of the stock barrel.

Taterhead 06-28-2012 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDGlock23 (Post 19142157)
Book max load (9.5gr) of Longshot will get you close to if not over 1300 fps w/180gr. I'm not a fan of "full power" 10mm in a stock barrel, since even some load that aren't even considered warm begin to bulge the brass pretty good. The 9.5gr Longshot load does well and the case bulge is there for sure, but not horrendous.

Interesting. In my testing, 9.5 gr Longshot under a 180 XTP only gets about 1190 fps in my G20. I was a bit surprised by that.

_The_Shadow 06-28-2012 22:20

My test with the 9.4 grains of LongShot, Rem 2 1/2 LP over the 200XTP, from the S&W1006 22lb RSA, yielded 1240-1250 fps from the G-29 factory bbl 21lb Wolff RSA, yielded 1177-1190 fps.

CanyonMan 06-29-2012 10:11

OK gentelman,

So any one put 9.4/9.5grs of LS under the 180gr XTP in a stock barrel G20/G29 and if you did what did you get ????

I am trying to pick some brains here as time is something I ain't got "right now," and save myself some bench time.. ;)


Mucho thanks ! ;)






CM

DarkShooter 06-29-2012 10:21

Thanks everyone. So much great information and advice for a 10mm FNG!


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