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-   -   Birdshot OK for badguys?! What the heck? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445896)

OctoberRust 10-02-2012 17:47

Birdshot OK for badguys?! What the heck?
 
I do not endorse the opinion in this video. I'm just curious on everyone else's thoughts.....

Me personally, I use 00 buck in my mossberg 500 for HD. The smallest I'd go is number 4 buckshot for defending myself in my house from 2 legged critters.

anyways, gunblast usually seems down to earth, am I missing something here?



Angry Fist 10-02-2012 17:48

There was a thread about this awhile back. The only way I support it is with:



dkf 10-02-2012 18:13

Quote:

The only way I support it is with:
Or wax slugs. Birdshot is still better than nothing though, just aim for the head.

OctoberRust 10-02-2012 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Fist (Post 19478787)
There was a thread about this awhile back. The only way I support it is with:


The lost art of "Cut Shells" - YouTube


Saw that before. interesting stuff, I think I'll stick with the 00 buck myself. If I want to reach 25-70 yards I'll just use a 1 oz slug with highbrass.

isp2605 10-02-2012 18:33

The first shooting I went to on the job involved 1 guy shooting another using a 20 ga single shot with #6 low brass. Distance was about 15 ft. Check the distances in your home as far as room sizes. The guy was hit just below the ribs in the xyphoid. Cut a jagged hole about the size of a golf ball. Wad was inside him. Found shot next to the spine. DRT. Since then been to several hunting accidents involving bird shot. It kills dead and quick at close range, distances the inside of most homes.

glock_19guy1983 10-02-2012 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by OctoberRust (Post 19478936)
Saw that before. interesting stuff, I think I'll stick with the 00 buck myself. If I want to reach 25-70 yards I'll just use a 1 oz slug with highbrass.

Also, just imagine how bad that could jam up the works on a pump or auto if it broke in half while cycling.

OctoberRust 10-02-2012 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by isp2605 (Post 19478953)
The first shooting I went to on the job involved 1 guy shooting another using a 20 ga single shot with #6 low brass. Distance was about 15 ft. Check the distances in your home as far as room sizes. The guy was hit just below the ribs in the xyphoid. Cut a jagged hole about the size of a golf ball. Wad was inside him. Found shot next to the spine. DRT. Since then been to several hunting accidents involving bird shot. It kills dead and quick at close range, distances the inside of most homes.

Understandable if you were defending yourself and had a full frontal shot of your attacker/home invader. What about if all you have is a side shot? What if he's taking cover behind your couch and about to throw rounds down range toward you? Then all of a sudden it seems the camp of "limited penetration for liability issues" becomes moot, since the bad guy may be using something that goes through multiple walls, etc.


Quote:

Originally Posted by glock_19guy1983 (Post 19479006)
Also, just imagine how bad that could jam up the works on a pump or auto if it broke in half while cycling.

Absolutely. I want tried and true if my life depends on it.

Angry Fist 10-02-2012 19:33

Quote:

Absolutely. I want tried and true if my life depends on it.
F'rill. I won't even try it until I get a single shot or pump gun. Guess it's one of those "in a pinch" things. Just be careful on how you cut them.

skew12 10-02-2012 19:33

#4 is the "lightest" I've ever seen recommended.

AlexHassin 10-02-2012 19:41

Bird shot can mess you up. if its what you got you mine as well.

what i am curious about is that now a days we have heavier then lead shot that gets used a lot for turkeys and waterfowl. any reason we don't see them begin talked about for defensive shotgun ammo?

Angry Fist 10-02-2012 19:44

http://recoilmag.com/news/grfx/cheney_shotgun_1008.jpg

Providence 10-02-2012 19:47

I don't want to get shot with birdshot, but that said, I use 00 low recoil buck. I use #4 buck in the 20 ga.

isp2605 10-02-2012 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by OctoberRust (Post 19479041)
Understandable if you were defending yourself and had a full frontal shot of your attacker/home invader. What about if all you have is a side shot? What if he's taking cover behind your couch and about to throw rounds down range toward you? Then all of a sudden it seems the camp of "limited penetration for liability issues" becomes moot, since the bad guy may be using something that goes through multiple walls, etc.

Using your scenario of "what ifs", what if the BG was hiding behind the refrigerator, what if there was a cinder block wall, what if, what if, what if. The world is full of 'what ifs'. I can tell one thing from having BTDT-wore out the t-shirt. No matter what gun you have when it hits the fan you quickly realize 1) yours isn't big enough, 2) you are sure you don't have enough ammo, and 3) the bad guy's gun seems a lot bigger than yours.
My point was don't underestimate bird shot. It will kill you just as dead as a slug and you won't be able to tell the difference. It's not a load I would recommend but I've read too many internet commandos on here and other forums that don't have a clue just how quickly dead bird shot will kill someone.

dcc12 10-02-2012 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by isp2605 (Post 19478953)
The first shooting I went to on the job involved 1 guy shooting another using a 20 ga single shot with #6 low brass. Distance was about 15 ft. Check the distances in your home as far as room sizes. The guy was hit just below the ribs in the xyphoid. Cut a jagged hole about the size of a golf ball. Wad was inside him. Found shot next to the spine. DRT. Since then been to several hunting accidents involving bird shot. It kills dead and quick at close range, distances the inside of most homes.

Agreed my experience in EMS and Trauma Centers tells me that from room distances birdshot will make a nice rathole wound. Even in the coldest of weather with thick clothing.

Marred 10-02-2012 21:49

Next time some guy breaks into my house dressed like a bird I'll be sure and use some bird shot.

noway 10-02-2012 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marred (Post 19479537)
Next time some guy breaks into my house dressed like a bird I'll be sure and use some bird shot.

so true :rofl:

Anybody endorsing birdshot for a self-defense load, well no comments.

For every person or story about who died from birdshot and the what-if game. I rather use what's known to work.

here's one story of a survivor

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/sto...php?id=1510186


here's a story of one who didn't

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...dent-shot.html


One was shot in the head by his own SG at muzzle contact or just about.

See the diference?

Now what you really depend on a Shotgun for self-defense?

But who knows, what-if a swarm of birds suddenly attack, than I guess you will be pretty well armed with a shotgun loaded with birdshot :rofl:

cowboy1964 10-02-2012 23:17


Marred 10-02-2012 23:59


Check out when the block is hit with buckshot at 2:04. Penetration was acceptable by FBI protocol standards 12 inches plus. Birdshot, not so much. No contest.

Check this out. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

OctoberRust 10-03-2012 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by isp2605 (Post 19479213)
Using your scenario of "what ifs", what if the BG was hiding behind the refrigerator, what if there was a cinder block wall, what if, what if, what if. The world is full of 'what ifs'. I can tell one thing from having BTDT-wore out the t-shirt. No matter what gun you have when it hits the fan you quickly realize 1) yours isn't big enough, 2) you are sure you don't have enough ammo, and 3) the bad guy's gun seems a lot bigger than yours.
My point was don't underestimate bird shot. It will kill you just as dead as a slug and you won't be able to tell the difference. It's not a load I would recommend but I've read too many internet commandos on here and other forums that don't have a clue just how quickly dead bird shot will kill someone.

Last I checked, unless you spend a few minutes lugging my beast of a fridge out from inside the wall, no one will be hiding behind it. Maybe in it, but then they got bigger problems :supergrin:

My house doesn't have any cinder block walls, so that's fine.

That's fine, I understand birdshot MAY stop a fight in a timely fashion. But if you have the chance to prepare before hand, why not use something a bit more efficient? like #4 or 00? Better to over penetrate slightly, than to under penetrate slightly and not hit any vitals, keeping the BG going.

Sorry if I came off as "birdshot is useless". It's not, but there is better options out there, and that I don't think is disputable....

SCmasterblaster 10-03-2012 07:04

I remember
 
Gunblast doing a video showing how effective 12ga birdshot is.


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