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-   -   Gen4 Glock 32 Failure to feed. (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446757)

hamster 10-08-2012 09:19

Gen4 Glock 32 Failure to feed.
 
Well I finally got to the range with my Gen4 G32. Unfortunately it was a complete nightmare and I don't yet understand what is going on.

The Pistol: Gen 4 Glock 32, August 2012 build date. Came with 3 ambi-cut mags with a follower marked #2 .357/10

The Ammo: Georgia Arms Speer GDHP.

Eager to unleash some .357 at the paper target, I loaded my first mag with 10 rounds of the Georgia arms GDHP. The first round chambered with no problems. Fired nicely and extracted. Thats when the problems started. The next round got hung up on the bottom of the feed-ramp and never fed out of the magazine. So I drop the mag, make sure all the rounds are seated... rince and repeat. Same problem over and over.

Finally I tried the other mags. All three mags exhibited the same behavior. Interestingly, when I hand cycle the mag, everything extracts and feeds properly.

When I got home, I measured the cartridges from Georgia arms and found them to be ever so slightly longer than some Winchester PDX1s I had laying around possibly out of spec?

Unfortunately I didn't have any other style mags or ammo to try on this first outing with the G32.
Anyone have similar experiences? Any ideas?

Beanie-Bean 10-08-2012 12:28

Sorry to hear about that, hamster. I've only shot commercial ammo from Speer, American Eagle/Federal, and Hornady through mine:

Speer 125 gr. Lawman TMJ
Speer 125 gr. Gold Dot
AE 125 gr. FMJ
Hornady 115 gr. Critical Defense

I load my own ammo for this caliber to practice with now, and use Speer 125 gr. TMJ with OAL of 1.135" Both of the commercial FMJ/TMJ ammo were the same length or shorter, and they fed through Glock magazines just fine. I used both the G32 Gen4 13-round magazines, as well as some G31 15-round magazines which weren't Gen4. No problems.

What was the OAL on the Georgia Arms ammo?

SJ 40 10-08-2012 13:16

Hamster
This is what I have for the latest followers for 357 and the revision date is 1/24/12
SP 01593-2

Magazine Follower - .357 9-rd, 11-rd, 13-rd, & 15-rd mags only - current follower is marked .357 & 2

From that I would say your magazines have the latest followers. I also think that what you describe as your problem would lead me to suspect a magazine feeding issue.
If it were me and I had any older Gen 3 magazines I would try that in the gun and see what the results were. SJ 40

hamster 10-08-2012 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJ 40 (Post 19497282)
Hamster
This is what I have for the latest followers for 357 and the revision date is 1/24/12
SP 01593-2

Magazine Follower - .357 9-rd, 11-rd, 13-rd, & 15-rd mags only - current follower is marked .357 & 2

From that I would say your magazines have the latest followers. I also think that what you describe as your problem would lead me to suspect a magazine feeding issue.
If it were me and I had any older Gen 3 magazines I would try that in the gun and see what the results were. SJ 40

I actually did I have the same problem with an older non-ambi Mag that I have. Problem is I don't know the exact age of that one since I got it off GT. It has the #2 follower as well. All I know is it isn't the Ambi-Cut.

I'll have to measure the OAL of the Georgia arms rounds again as soon as a I get a chance later this afternoon.

davsco 10-08-2012 14:28

sorry to hear of your problems. i just shot my gen 4 g32 for the first time last weekend. two boxes of fed fmj and a box of gold dots. only issue was the slide not locking back after each mag was dry, could be the aftermarket extended slide release i put on. it definitely works to release the slide.

other than that, zero issues, worked just as great as i expected.

hamster 10-08-2012 14:57

Ok, here are a handfull of cartridges I randomly measured from the bag of 50

Georgia Arms 125 GR JHP Speer Bonded Unicore, OAL:
1.1330
1.1400
1.1390
1.1310
1.1430
1.1485
1.1335
1.1395

SJ 40 10-08-2012 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster (Post 19497649)
Ok, here are a handfull of cartridges I randomly measured from the bag of 50

Georgia Arms 125 GR JHP Speer Bonded Unicore, OAL:
1.1330
1.1400
1.1390
1.1310
1.1430
1.1485
1.1335
1.1395

Well you found your culprit.
I have never shot any of that brand and I won't be from those results,thankfully I reload. SJ 40

hamster 10-08-2012 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJ 40 (Post 19497678)
Well you found your culprit.
I have never shot any of that brand and I won't be from those results,thankfully I reload. SJ 40

Forgive me for my ignorance here, but all I know is which direction my "boolitz" should face in the mag.

What would you expect the range of OALs to look like? Are the cartridges too long, too short? What is the largest acceptable variation from the norm?

I'd hope that too short should not be a problem. I've even read of folks on the Sig Forum being able to feed spent shells through their sigs with no feeding issues.

Beanie-Bean 10-08-2012 15:32

hamster,

I just looked at my load data, and the OAL I'm good with on my .357SIG loads is 1.135" (not the other value which I stated earlier.)

Looking at my load manuals, the max length for .357SIG is 1.140" The slightly longer ones may be the ones giving you problems.

I didn't want to mention any SIG pistols on this post, because you were having problems specifically with the G32 Gen4, but now that you've mentioned the SIG pistols, I'll go on to say that I shot the same loads with a G22 w/G31 barrel, a SIG P229, and the G32. Both Glocks were Gen4 models.

Oh yeah, I've got the crimp die set to 0.379" and don't have problems with setback, either.

Hope this info helps.

SJ 40 10-08-2012 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster (Post 19497719)
Forgive me for my ignorance here, but all I know is which direction my "boolitz" should face in the mag.

What would you expect the range of OALs to look like? Are the cartridges too long, too short? What is the largest acceptable variation from the norm?

I'd hope that too short should not be a problem. I've even read of folks on the Sig Forum being able to feed spent shells through their sigs with no feeding issues.

If I were loading the ammunition myself for myself I with 357 Sig would look at 1.135 as my target OAL

Georgia Arms 125 GR JHP Speer Bonded Unicore, OAL:
1.1330
1.1400
1.1390
1.1310
1.1430
1.1485
1.1335
1.1395
If your numbers are correct your OAL varies by,.
090,frankly I 'm surprised that a cartridge 1.1400 doesn't catch here and there in your magazine. SJ 40

hamster 10-08-2012 16:37

Im going to go back and measure them all. I'm not sure if the in-spec one are that way from being jammed into the feed ramp? Perhaps they were all too long,

What factory ammo would y'all recommend I try next?

txgunguy 10-08-2012 16:53

I had a G33 that did the same thing. Glock re-designed their 357 feed ramp to more of a flat profile. The older profile was sort of a semi circle, like the 9mm feed ramps.

Every brand of HP and some FMJ would not feed properly in that 33. I got my money back from the guy I bought it from. He sold it to me and knew it had issues.

I could have sent it back to glock but I was too pissed.

I tried 4 different magazines, all with latest followers and one mag with the old follower. I put a 27 barrel in it and it fed flawless. I THINK, that the ramp was cut a hair too short causing the rounds to hang up.

voyager4520 10-08-2012 17:26

Are these limited capacity 10-round magazines or standard capacity 13-round magazines?

I'm not sure if there's another type of follower you could use in .357 10-round magazines. I know with 9mm 10-round magazines you can use 9mm3 followers if you experience failures to feed with the original 10-round followers. Perhaps .40 #5 followers would work in .357 10-round magazines.

The first thing I'd try is different ammo, I've never shot .357SIG so I couldn't make any recommendations but Speer Gold Dot 125gr may be a good place to start.

There seemed to be a problem in some .357SIG models, particularly G32's and G33's where the feed ramp seemed to be the culprit. The only solution for a lot people was to use an aftermarket barrel that had the older feed ramp design, I think a lot of people used KKM barrels and that fixed it for them.

Glock's recent extractors seem to have more variation in their specs and be more likely to fit too tight causing failures to feed, if nothing else seems to work you might try a replacement .357/.40 LCI extractor.

SJ 40 10-08-2012 17:46

I found this,it has some good information and data. It shows the Max. OAL at 1.140.
Most commercial loadings of it run from 1.135 to 1.140 none shorter none longer.
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar65.htm
SJ 40

hamster 10-08-2012 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by voyager4520 (Post 19498127)
Are these limited capacity 10-round magazines or standard capacity 13-round magazines?

I'm not sure if there's another type of follower you could use in .357 10-round magazines. I know with 9mm 10-round magazines you can use 9mm3 followers if you experience failures to feed with the original 10-round followers. Perhaps .40 #5 followers would work in .357 10-round magazines.

The first thing I'd try is different ammo, I've never shot .357SIG so I couldn't make any recommendations but Speer Gold Dot 125gr may be a good place to start.

There seemed to be a problem in some .357SIG models, particularly G32's and G33's where the feed ramp seemed to be the culprit. The only solution for a lot people was to use an aftermarket barrel that had the older feed ramp design, I think a lot of people used KKM barrels and that fixed it for them.

Glock's recent extractors seem to have more variation in their specs and be more likely to fit too tight causing failures to feed, if nothing else seems to work you might try a replacement .357/.40 LCI extractor.

They were 13 rounders.

clarkstoncz 10-08-2012 20:49

Yes, the street/highway proven 125 gr Gold Dot is an excellent starting point.

I do hope you can get your problems worked out. 99% it's the ammo:)

dkf 10-08-2012 21:01

The Speer factory Gold Dot ammo (both 53918 and 54234) are loaded to a OAL of 1.125". The Speer Gold Dot .357sig bullets are some of the hardest to feed because of the wide HP cavity. Federal HSTs, Hornady XTPs, pretty much all FMJs and etc feed smoother than Gold Dots. The HST is the best feeder I have shot through my sig guns.

The SAAMI max OAL for the .357sig is 1.140". I loaded some of my .357sig reloads to test with a new bullet and set them out to 1.150" and a few would hang up on the feed ramp on a gun that never malfunctioned before. Thus I found where OAL affects reliability, thus I shortened the OAL up.

Both my G32 and G33 have the newer barrels with the narrower feed ramp and the #2 followers and have had not malfunctions (other than my long OAL test reloads) Try some FMJ like Speer Lawman, S&B, Federal and etc to see if you have issues. The variation in OAL on the rounds you posted seems very large to me. I try to keep my reloads better than +- .003" variation from the targeted OAL.

hamster 10-08-2012 21:28

That factory Speer sounds close to the factory winchesters I measured at 1.127. I will have to try different rounds.

I'm willing to blame the ammo, but this is the first glock jam I've ever had. Definitely has me worried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkf (Post 19498988)
The Speer factory Gold Dot ammo (both 53918 and 54234) are loaded to a OAL of 1.125". The Speer Gold Dot .357sig bullets are some of the hardest to feed because of the wide HP cavity. Federal HSTs, Hornady XTPs, pretty much all FMJs and etc feed smoother than Gold Dots. The HST is the best feeder I have shot through my sig guns.

The SAAMI max OAL for the .357sig is 1.140". I loaded some of my .357sig reloads to test with a new bullet and set them out to 1.150" and a few would hang up on the feed ramp on a gun that never malfunctioned before. Thus I found where OAL affects reliability, thus I shortened the OAL up.

Both my G32 and G33 have the newer barrels with the narrower feed ramp and the #2 followers and have had not malfunctions (other than my long OAL test reloads) Try some FMJ like Speer Lawman, S&B, Federal and etc to see if you have issues. The variation in OAL on the rounds you posted seems very large to me. I try to keep my reloads better than +- .003" variation from the targeted OAL.


dkf 10-08-2012 22:06

Yeah the large factory ammo makers usually load at 1.125" OAL for the .357sig. That is at least what I have found with the rounds I have measured.

TxGlock9 10-08-2012 22:40

I've had the EXACT same problems when I had my gen3 G32 shooting 1000rds of GA arms ammo. Oddly enough when I shot my gen4 G22 with 31 conversion barrel I NEVER had any problems with the same type of ammo. I do not own the gen3 32 any longer. Goodbye and good riddance.


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