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-   -   If your Glock works, this isn't the thread for you..... (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447116)

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 11:55

If your Glock works, this isn't the thread for you.....
 
So with all the argumentative types as of late, most of the threads have been locked up. I don't care if you have a Glock that runs 100% (so do I), I don't care if you think I work for someone else that is a competitor of Glock, and I don't care if your feelings are hurt because other people's pistols are malfunctioning and you LOVE Glock because that's all you own.

I own a couple of Glocks, M&P's, rifles, a nice vintage BHP, etc. I have been shooting Glocks since 2008, and I have never once had ANY issue with ANY of my Glocks, until I purchased my Gen 4 G19 a few months ago.

The purpose of this thread is for those having issues to share information, that is all. This is not a debate, or a thread for people who shoot 100 rounds per year, or who can't even grip their pistol the correct way when they shoot. Once upon a time this was a great forum where people shared information and had intellectual conversations on their "differences of opinion", I can't say that has been much of the trend the last couple of years.

So enough with the BS, let's get down to it.

I own a G19 Gen 4, Serial number SVY***. It now has over 3,000 rounds through it since I purchased it a little over 3 months ago. After almost 2,000 rounds through the gun, I started getting pelted in the face with brass, brass would roll out of the ejection port and onto my right arm, and the brass started ejecting basically wherever it wants to. Left, Right, forward, back over me, back to my face, etc, etc.

I was pretty sure my pistol was good to go with the amount of rounds and no issues, and no sooner than I sell my "backup" G19 (Gen 3 G19, I know mistake on my part) to a family member who was in need of a new pistol, do the issues present themselves.

I use this G19 for CCW, Training classes, IDPA, local training nights, and just regular range trips on my own. It is not a safe queen. All of the rounds through this pistol have been through the aforementioned environments.

The changes I made to the pistol were the sights, the Ghost Rocket, G17 smooth trigger bar, Vickers mag release, and vickers slide stop. I also replaced the factory springs with Wolff factory weight springs, and the trigger spring is a 6# extra power spring. I basically do the same modifications to all my Glocks. I also did some grip work on it recently.

I called Glock last week and spoke to a tech and explained my issues, he sighed and asked me to send the gun in without us even discussing anything further, I was told my complaints are not new. I told him I would like to try and diagnose the issues I am having before just sending the pistol in, being that I am a certified Armorer he could send me the parts with no issue, and they were free of charge. We discussed what the "updated" parts were on my pistol, and I did already have the "043" RSA, and the "30274" ejector. When it was all said and done, he said I would get a new extractor, and a new RSA (because of the round count) and we would go from there. Well today the "new" parts arrived from Smyrna, and the extractor is the same "dipped" version as the one my pistol came with, and we already know I had the updated RSA, so I just got a newer one, as periodic maintenance.

I will be hitting the range tomorrow and getting some ammo down range, probably 200 rounds or so to see what happens with the new parts. Being that they're the same parts, "I" expect 1 of 2 things to happen:

1) The gun will shoot and eject exactly as it has been lately
2) It will be better for a while then go back to it's old ways

I am awaiting getting my hands on the Apex part, and I did put an order in with Glockparts.Com because on another forum someone shared that their new 9MM LCI extractors were non dipped, so hopefully I get an HRED setup from them along with a non dipped extractor to try out.

Edit to add: Extractor that came on the pistol is stamped with a "4" and the new replacement from Glock has a "2" stamped on it.

I have taken some pictures for the sake of illustration that I would like to share, I'm not saying anything is right or wrong, just posting pics.

Below are some pics of my old extractor after over 3K rounds through the gun:

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/IMG_5672.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/IMG_5671.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/IMG_5670.jpg

Picture showing the old RSA I had which is the updated one:

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/IMG_5673.jpg

Picture of the new "dipped" extractor installed in the gun:

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/IMG_5678.jpg

And picture of the new RSA:

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/IMG_5679.jpg

Thanks
FM

captaintrips 10-10-2012 12:27

I bought my brand new 29sf a month ago. I noticed as I hand racked the slide it would fail to return to battery about half the time. I called Glock and the gentleman said it should be fine once I started shooting it.

My first outing was last week. Out of 50 rounds it failed to return to battery 4 times. An 8% failure rate is unacceptable, maybe I should have saved $300 and bought a Taurus.....kidding.....but you get my point.

I called Glock again and the gentleman said he would send me a new recoil spring assembly. I asked if he thought that would work and he said "That's the first thing we try."

Not very comforting.....

I will let you know when it gets here.

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by captaintrips (Post 19503929)
I bought my brand new 29sf a month ago. I noticed as I hand racked the slide it would fail to return to battery about half the time. I called Glock and the gentleman said it should be fine once I started shooting it.

My first outing was last week. Out of 50 rounds it failed to return to battery 4 times. An 8% failure rate is unacceptable, maybe I should have saved $300 and bought a Taurus.....kidding.....but you get my point.

I called Glock again and the gentleman said he would send me a new recoil spring assembly. I asked if he thought that would work and he said "That's the first thing we try."

Not very comforting.....

I will let you know when it gets here.

Thanks for your input, will be interesting to see what happens with your pistol. I have a friend on another forum who's main issue (initially) with his Gen 4 was the recoil spring assembly, you could push the slide "forward" from the rear a good amount with just a finger, lol.

Keep us posted on what happens with your pistol.

FM :wavey:

Dragoon189 10-10-2012 12:39

My 34 had the issue with less than 500 rds through it. I even tried hotter ammo and that just sent the brass at my face faster. Had the 336 ejector so I had that swapped and a new extractor for the heck of it and now with another 100 rds through it I look to be in the clear. No brass going anywhere but to the right for now. I love everything else about my gun so I hope that is the last I have to deal with it. I am very happy with the process I went through to get it fixed, the local armorer had it done very quick and painless.

bac1023 10-10-2012 12:44

I'll stick to my older Glocks, thanks.

xrmattaz 10-10-2012 13:01

I would have left it stock.

I can't make my Gen 4 G17 fail....I've tried.

JBS 10-10-2012 13:14

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic (Post 19503834)
I own a G19 Gen 4, Serial number SVY***. It now has over 3,000 rounds through it since I purchased it a little over 3 months ago. After almost 2,000 rounds through the gun, I started getting pelted in the face with brass, brass would roll out of the ejection port and onto my right arm, and the brass started ejecting basically wherever it wants to. Left, Right, forward, back over me, back to my face, etc, etc.FM

One thing that I don’t think has been addressed yet is the possibility of the extractor actually stretching to some extent after many cycles. If the gun runs for many hundreds of rounds and then starts to act up it has to be a wear part or an actual part failure and that would include the part loosing spec measurements by elongating. When you get your new part just for grins measure the distance between the claw and the anchor lug and see if your old one has gotten wider than the new one. Back in the 70s and early 80s the market had a bunch of import arms with parts that would bend or stretch after a few hundred rounds.

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrmattaz (Post 19504015)
I would have left it stock.

I can't make my Gen 4 G17 fail....I've tried.

Stock in what sense? The changes I have made to this pistol are the same as all my others, what does that have to do with anything? If the parts changed caused something then why don't my other Glocks have the same issues as this gun? :dunno:

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBS (Post 19504047)
One thing that I don’t think has been addressed yet is the possibility of the extractor actually stretching to some extent after many cycles. If the gun runs for many hundreds of rounds and then starts to act up it has to be a wear part or an actual part failure and that would include the part loosing spec measurements by elongating. When you get your new part just for grins measure the distance between the claw and the anchor lug and see if your old one has gotten wider than the new one. Back in the 70s and early 80s the market had a bunch of import arms with parts that would bend or stretch after a few hundred rounds.

I will get the dial caliper out later tonight when the household calms down a bit. That would be an interesting comparison.

Thanks for your input.
FM

Edit: I couldn't wait had to know, 0.455" on both parts the new and the old.

xrmattaz 10-10-2012 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic (Post 19504063)
Stock in what sense? The changes I have made to this pistol are the same as all my others, what does that have to do with anything? If the parts changed caused something then why don't my other Glocks have the same issues as this gun? :dunno:


Are you limp wristing?

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrmattaz (Post 19504097)
Are you limp wristing?

I'm not even going to entertain anymore of your responses man..... :rofl:

Your gun works, go away to one of threads of the guys with 100 rounds through their "perfect" gun.

curlysir 10-10-2012 13:31

I am surprised that the extractor is the dipped version. I thought the non dipped was the latest and greatest for the 9mm. I replaced the extractor in my Gen 4 G17 with the non dipped version and have consistent ejections at 4 o'clock, much better then the original dipped. The last 2 I have ordered from Midway have been the non dipped. The ejector I just installed (from Midway) on my Gen 3 G22 was still dipped but was of much better quality then the stock ejector. Glock appears to have changed their method of manufacture.

I shot over 100 rounds yesterday chasing a failure to feed with the G22, appears to have been the RSA causing the problem.

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlysir (Post 19504109)
I am surprised that the extractor is the dipped version. I thought the non dipped was the latest and greatest for the 9mm. I replaced the extractor in my Gen 4 G17 with the non dipped version and have consistent ejections at 4 o'clock, much better then the original dipped. The last 2 I have ordered from Midway have been the non dipped. The ejector I just installed (from Midway) on my Gen 3 G22 was still dipped but was of much better quality then the stock ejector. Glock appears to have changed their method of manufacture.

Yes I was surprised as well, I thought the non dipped version for the 9MM with the LCI was the latest version. Hopefully the one from Glock parts LLC will be the non dipped.

If not maybe I can get lucky enough to try the Apex part when they release the next batch of extractors.

xrmattaz 10-10-2012 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic (Post 19504103)
I'm not even going to entertain anymore of your responses man..... :rofl:

Your gun works, go away to one of threads of the guys with 100 rounds through their "perfect" gun.

I have 1800 rounds of nothing but the finest Russian Browm Bear through my Gen 4 G17, pay attention, man.

JBS 10-10-2012 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic (Post 19504067)
I will get the dial caliper out later tonight when the household calms down a bit. That would be an interesting comparison.

Thanks for your input.
FM

Edit: I couldn't wait had to know, 0.455" on both parts the new and the old.

Well, check that off the list.

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrmattaz (Post 19504126)
I have 1800 rounds of nothing but the finest Russian Browm Bear through my Gen 4 G17, pay attention, man.

I believe you need to pay attention, as clearly the title of the thread escaped you completely, because you're posting in this thread and have a "non problematic" Glock.

I have other Glocks with no issues, so I'm only limp wristing the Gen 4?

molar 10-10-2012 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBS (Post 19504047)
One thing that I donít think has been addressed yet is the possibility of the extractor actually stretching to some extent after many cycles. If the gun runs for many hundreds of rounds and then starts to act up it has to be a wear part or an actual part failure and that would include the part loosing spec measurements by elongating. When you get your new part just for grins measure the distance between the claw and the anchor lug and see if your old one has gotten wider than the new one. Back in the 70s and early 80s the market had a bunch of import arms with parts that would bend or stretch after a few hundred rounds.

My 19 had problems from the start, but I too, find it interesting that some guns don't develop the problem until a few thousand rounds are through the gun. One thing I found odd was that the spring loaded bearing and spring was a few mm shorter in my 19 than the one found in my 17. The odd part is that my 19 only had 500 rounds through it while the 17 has several thousand. I wonder if some of the EDP springs are defective and compress under load earlier. I know this would cause a loss of extractor tension, but what effect would it have on ejection and extraction?

Fire_Medic 10-10-2012 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by molar (Post 19504186)
My 19 had problems from the start, but I too, find it interesting that some guns don't develop the problem until a few thousand rounds are through the gun. One thing I found odd was that the spring loaded bearing and spring was a few mm shorter in my 19 than the one found in my 17. The odd part is that my 19 only had 500 rounds through it while the 17 has several thousand. I wonder if some of the EDP springs are defective and compress under load earlier. I know this would cause a loss of extractor tension, but what effect would it have on ejection and extraction?

I'm sure it would have a negative effect, especially since Apex saw it fit to provide a new spring with their extractors, and I know they did a lot of testing before hand.

xrmattaz 10-10-2012 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic (Post 19504135)
I believe you need to pay attention, as clearly the title of the thread escaped you completely, because you're posting in this thread and have a "non problematic" Glock.

I have other Glocks with no issues, so I'm only limp wristing the Gen 4?

I always pay attention. The title of your thread had me giddy from the start.

GPBob 10-10-2012 14:39

Fire Medic, you may have better luck with the White Sound depressor assembly than I did. My Gen 3 19 ejected BTFs with greater regularity using that part. It even gave me a BTF when inserted into my reliably ejecting 26.

I'm sending the White Sound back to Glockparts and exchanging it for a 40cal extractor.


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