Glock Talk

Glock Talk (http://glocktalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Carry Issues (http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Anyone Carried in a Post Office? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447226)

DaBurna 10-10-2012 22:17

Anyone Carried in a Post Office?
 
I know it's a HUGE "NO-NO!!" I had someone admit to me he did accidentally as he was out running errands and such... He got to the counter to buy a book of stamps... Then it hit him as he went to get the money out of his pocket.... An LCP!!!:shocked:

He played it off and no one notices. Needless to say the SCARE of his life....I told him "U dodged a bullet today dude!!"

I told him "LESSON LEARNED" stop, think, and read signs! In addition OBEY FEDERAL LAW!! I liken his experience to a kid cutting the tag off a pillow or mattress! :tongueout:

Be careful & stay vigilant fellas!!:wavey:

Dalton Wayne 10-10-2012 22:21

Concealed is concealed :whistling:

OH and IBTL

Whitey1 10-10-2012 23:11

So how many stamps did you buy today? :whistling:

Dalton Wayne 10-10-2012 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitey1 (Post 19505945)
So how many stamps did you buy today? :whistling:

LOL none today Monday is the day I go to the PO :tongueout:

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBurna (Post 19505860)
I know it's a HUGE "NO-NO!!" I had someone admit to me he did accidentally as he was out running errands and such... He got to the counter to buy a book of stamps... Then it hit him as he went to get the money out of his pocket.... An LCP!!!:shocked:

He played it off and no one notices. Needless to say the SCARE of his life....I told him "U dodged a bullet today dude!!"

I told him "LESSON LEARNED" stop, think, and read signs! In addition OBEY FEDERAL LAW!! I liken his experience to a kid cutting the tag off a pillow or mattress! :tongueout:

Be careful & stay vigilant fellas!!:wavey:

Would you mind pointing out the federal law that was supposedly broken when he carried into the post office, please?

I'm curious.

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 03:10

I'll even spot you one but it does have an exception and if I'm not mistaken purchasing stamps is a legitimate purpose for going into a post office.

39 CFR 232.1:
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

Arc Angel 10-11-2012 04:14

Yeah, HerrGlock's got ya!

LEGAL carry inside a post office is not a, 'huge no-no'. The prohibition against post office carry is not a federal law. It is a federal regulation which, in strict point-of-fact, cannot be federally enforced inside any post office building. Why? Because the post office is not a federal organization; and post office buildings are not owned by the federal government. The United States Post Office is a privately-held corporation. All you're doing when you LEGALLY carry inside a post office is disobeying the property owner's wishes.

Disallowing (otherwise) legally carried firearms in post offices is an example of what is called, 'national fiat legislation'. This rule is a residual government regulation, passed without valid congressional consent, and left over from the antithetical 1990's Clinton administration.

(Besides, as every well-informed American citizen knows: It's the guys ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POST OFFICE COUNTER that you really have to worry about!) :supergrin:

CA Escapee 10-11-2012 05:24

There's a lawsuit in Denver against the USPS by a husband and wife based on violation of 2A rights. The USPS, naturally, argued to a judge that it should be tossed out. The judge said, nope, it's valid and is allowing it to continue.

Edit: The most recent action in the case was months ago, but as I recall the rep from the USPS said something like, our customers have to feel safe when they come to the Post Office. Yeah right, their customers except those that can legally carry and have to leave their fireams in their vehicles, which is exactly what the husband argued. The judge must have thought the husband had a valid point; he gave the green light and allowed the lawsuit to go forward.

Bill

AtlantaR6 10-11-2012 05:29

My GA ccw has some restrictions clearly stated but a post office isn't one. There's a reason for that.

Are you the same guy who went off because your friend posted on Facebook he was going to a CCW class?

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA Escapee (Post 19506276)
There's a lawsuit in Denver against the USPS based on violation of 2A rights by a husband and wife.. The USPS, naturally, argued to a judge that it should be tossed out. The judge said, nope, it's valid and is allowing it to continue.

Yup, I'm watching that one closely.

So far there's only one case I'm aware of that went to the Supreme Court with ONLY a firearm on P.O. property charge.

Drug dealer on the property, some other stuff went on, they busted him because he had a handgun in the car. Court ruled "the parking lot is not a facility" so even if the US Code were in force for the P.O. the parking lot wasn't covered so his conviction was overturned.

I really need to find that one again. Took me months to find it before and I didn't bookmark it. Riggin' friggin'...

So this Denver one and the one in Louisiana are the only two alive right now that I can find without too much looking.

Bruce M 10-11-2012 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arc Angel (Post 19506202)
Yeah, HerrGlock's got ya!

LEGAL carry inside a post office is not a, 'huge no-no'. The prohibition against post office carry is not a federal law. It is a federal regulation which, in strict point-of-fact, cannot be federally enforced inside any post office building. ...:supergrin:


That sounds really cool. I however might be reluctant to attempt to offer that up to either the US Postal Police or the US Postal Inspection Service just in case they have a slightly different interpretation of whether or not they can enforce that section of Title 18. I wonder when they arrest someone for burglarizing a USPS facility or for committing an armed robbery at a Post Office whether they prosecute that as a federal or state crime?

Bruce M 10-11-2012 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrGlock (Post 19506167)
I'll even spot you one but it does have an exception and if I'm not mistaken purchasing stamps is a legitimate purpose for going into a post office.

39 CFR 232.1:
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.


Any chance that there is a slight difference between the two words, legitimate and official?

boomhower 10-11-2012 06:07

I do. While inside the state I can carry anywhere except federal property. As pointed out the post office isn't federal property.

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce M (Post 19506318)
Any chance that there is a slight difference between the two words, legitimate and official?

May be but if you're going into a post office for stamps, isn't that one of the official uses of a post office?

This one's going to get into the courts a few times before it's ironed out. Right now even the post office is posting horse feathers with some of the signs actually stating the US Code forbids carry there.

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce M (Post 19506304)
That sounds really cool. I however might be reluctant to attempt to offer that up to either the US Postal Police or the US Postal Inspection Service just in case they have a slightly different interpretation of whether or not they can enforce that section of Title 18. I wonder when they arrest someone for burglarizing a USPS facility or for committing an armed robbery at a Post Office whether they prosecute that as a federal or state crime?

What on earth does Title 18 have to do with carrying in a post office? Please answer this question.

Burglarizing, yes, it's stated that interference with mail is a federal offense, but that's not the point and has nothing to do with carrying in a post office.

Gun Shark 10-11-2012 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrGlock (Post 19506347)
May be but if you're going into a post office for stamps, isn't that one of the official uses of a post office?

This one's going to get into the courts a few times before it's ironed out. Right now even the post office is posting horse feathers with some of the signs actually stating the US Code forbids carry there.

I guess you could say that, but when I read it, I took "official" to mean LE.

Until it is clear, I don't think I will be carrying there anytime soon.

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce M (Post 19506304)
That sounds really cool. I however might be reluctant to attempt to offer that up to either the US Postal Police or the US Postal Inspection Service just in case they have a slightly different interpretation of whether or not they can enforce that section of Title 18. I wonder when they arrest someone for burglarizing a USPS facility or for committing an armed robbery at a Post Office whether they prosecute that as a federal or state crime?

Here, I'll help you out too.

Here are all the US Code sections that are in Title 18 and have to do with mail and mail property:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...t-I/chapter-83

Theft, destruction, mailing firearms, falsification, obstruction of mail, etc are all covered. Those are exactly what you're talking about with the burglarizing of the USPS facility.

Now, show me where any of that has anything to do with carrying a firearm on USPS property, please.

HerrGlock 10-11-2012 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Shark (Post 19506356)
I guess you could say that, but when I read it, I took "official" to mean LE.

Until it is clear, I don't think I will be carrying there anytime soon.

Have at it. No one's talking about personal preference. Free country and all that.

The question in here is whether it's federally legal to carry in one.

There are some states that forbid it, those are black and white illegal to do so and not an issue.

I'm hoping someone can show me where it's federally illegal to do so.

BADOS 10-11-2012 06:53

I can't remember the last time I went to a post office. If I need stamps, I get 'em at the food market, LOL. I CC everywhere except, bars, airport and the court house. Who will "yell" at me for something they don't see?

molar 10-11-2012 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrGlock (Post 19506374)
Have at it. No one's talking about personal preference. Free country and all that.

The question in here is whether it's federally legal to carry in one.

There are some states that forbid it, those are black and white illegal to do so and not an issue.

I'm hoping someone can show me where it's federally illegal to do so.

I, for one, am not willing to be a test case.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:04.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2013, Glock Talk, All Rights Reserved.