Glock Talk

Glock Talk (http://glocktalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Political Issues (http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=57)
-   -   Sunny days and coming storms. The evolution of a Nation. (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1451848)

Rabbi 11-07-2012 15:01

Sunny days and coming storms. The evolution of a Nation.
 
Today I woke up to a world remarkably similar to yesterday. The weather is mild and the sun is brilliant. I left my home to go out into the world to do the things I do in the world. All the joys, sorrows and mundanities of life were still to be found in all the places you normally find such things.

I chose to count my blessings. While they may ebb and flow with the fickle tides of luck and power, my lot in life is magnificent. Not for the things I have but for the opportunities I have been given and the most sacred gift of the ability to pursue them.

Most people in this country will find themselves in a similar situation today. Even if their lot is less and their future not so clear. Before you stands your future. No matter what choice you wish to make or ultimately make, there are forces opposed to that choice. You must endeavour to stand strong in your path. You must rise above the forces that, be they real or imagined, seek to hold you back from your dreams.

Today, in America, even if it is, or just seems a little harder, your destiny is still your own. Choose wisely. Enjoy the the warm touch of the suns embrace upon you as you seek to build your life.

These things are true. If it was easy, it would not matter. The path is hard, even in the best of times. Let your mind become tough as steel but keep your heart open and soft. Even when the world lets you down, do the right things, challenge yourself to always go one more step but make no mistake, there is a storm coming.

In the distance, we can see the dark clouds of dispare and failure. One needs to be mindful that they are always there. The events of this day did not produce them, even if they made them grow or inch ever closer. Our fall or worse, our demise, is always near. Today, however, we chose to look at those dark clouds a little closer with more trepidation in our souls about what is to come.

Let us set aside cliched words and ill timed poetry for a second and explore reality.

If one reaches outside of their box to explore both sides of the issue, and one listens intently to what each side says, in spite of the myriad of details and exceptions, there is one ultimate truth, The Democrats talk about issues. The Republicans talk about principles.

If you listen to Limbaugh, Hanity and others, outside of the blatant mouth piecing (your hear from both sides) their core message always comes back to principles. Be they fine and noble principles or not, still, principles. If you dare to turn on "the enemy" and actually listen to what they are saying, they are talking about issues. Finite, definable issues.

Lets us explore this for a second what the difference really is. Abortion is "wrong" is a principle. "This is how abortion will effect this person and that person and this group and that group" is an issue.

How you think children should be raised is a principle. Your neighbor doesn't give a damn about your theories on raising children, he does care about the actual, day to day functional ISSUES with raising his children.

There are so many ways to describe this but I am sure most people understand.

Most people in this country are center to right. The math shows such trends...but those are peoples principles. People vote issues. Each of us has those things that are important to us. Each of us has our sacred cows. The left in this country continues to include as many as they can and avoid (most of the time, like guns) the things they don't want to. While the right goes forth with its principles. Principles don't include, they exclude. It you are trying to win, the choice is obvious.

If you are a woman, if you are a gay man, if you are a minority, (and that is far more than half the people in this country) who do you think the real enemy of freedom is? the results answer that question.

The Right sails a beautiful ship. It is a ship filled with ideas that have helped shape the most powerful and prosperous nation the world has ever known. It is a ship that visits the ports of need where ever it may find it. It is a ship with a powerful cargo of enlightenment, tradition, humanity, history and dare I day it, dear a guiding principles that are for the better of much of mankind. The ship is sound and worthy. The course must be changed though. This ship must set sail for the ports of those who feel oppressed. This ship must set sail for the ports of those it has ignored.

Otherwise, the magnificent ship of the Right will sail right into those dark clouds as well.


Be not upset with the winners, you do not get edit the other teams play book. The only way to ever recover from a loss is to fix your own problems and win the rematch. Victory comes from beating than the other guy. Everything else is falure.

Cooper 11-07-2012 15:14

Thanks for this, Rabbi.

Your assertion that the US is a center/right country is ringing a little hollow today. Perhaps it is because of the issues vs. principle-oriented voting that you're talking about. I think, though, that the times have changed.

The skeleton in democracy's closet is that it is possible for the majority to be wrong. Electing Obama once could be construed as a mistake by gullible voters caught up in identity politics. Electing him twice, like it or not, is a clear signal from the electorate.

johnd 11-07-2012 15:20

What I find most fascinating is that only about 60% of the registered voters in the USA actually voted. If Romney had got his registered group to vote plus a few of the indeps, he would have had a landslide. Same for the other bloke.
When I look at my journey to get here as a legal immigrant and now a US citizen and earned the right to vote, I am appalled that millions didnt vote, that they just sit there on their duffs whining.

Rabbi 11-07-2012 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooper (Post 19604261)
Thanks for this, Rabbi.

Your assertion that the US is a center/right country is ringing a little hollow today. Perhaps it is because of the issues vs. principle-oriented voting that you're talking about. I think, though, that the times have changed.

The skeleton in democracy's closet is that it is possible for the majority to be wrong. Electing Obama once could be construed as a mistake by gullible voters caught up in identity politics. Electing him twice, like it or not, is a clear signal from the electorate.

It is center right....but people vote issues, not principles.

You can be a religious, conservative, pro gun, pro personal responsibility kind of guy....but gay. Such a person IS *right* but guess who he is voting for?...and lets be honest, can you blame such a person? Again, who is the real enemy of freedom for such a person?

The right needs to realize that there are a lot of people who ARE on the right or moderate, who are not "stupid" or whatever else the right thinks they are, they see themselves (or a pet issue) in jeapardy by the principles of the right...and in many cases, it is pretty understandable if you put yourselves in their shoes.

GeorgiaGlocker 11-07-2012 15:27

Our country will continue to be divided as long as this president occupies the whitehouse. He is certainly the most divisive president I have ever seen since I have been able to vote. His arrogance and thin-skin is astounding.

Rabbi 11-07-2012 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGlocker (Post 19604327)
Our country will continue to be divided as long as this president occupies the whitehouse. He is certainly the most divisive president I have ever seen since I have been able to vote. His arrogance and thin-skin is astounding.

The country has always been divided but your thoughts on THIS President are not true, at least according to the math.

He beat Romney by MORE votes than he beat McCain.

...he may be arrogant and thin skinned but he is also right. He has just given his *side* 8 years of presidency and national healthcare.

Because you and I cant stand him....doesnt change the fact he is a stone cold winner. Oh, that upsets me to no end, but it is still true.

Steve0853 11-07-2012 15:50

Rabbi, I believe you are wrong about the center right thing.

I always believed that, too. But yesterday was a full throated embrace of socialism. Every person who voted knew full well what the choice between Obama and Romney represented and as you stated, they overwhelmingly chose Obama.

At best the new reality is that America is center left, trending more left.

flyover 11-07-2012 15:53

Wasn't it Lincoln that said, "A nation divided cannot stand."?

Batesmotel 11-07-2012 15:54

People vote self interest. The welfare/entitlement crowd out number the have a job/take care of yourself crowd.

series1811 11-07-2012 15:56

I believed that this country was right of center until yesterday. It is clear it is not.

It's been heading that way for a long time and it's hard to really act surprised.

mhambi 11-07-2012 16:02

I love a beautiful day out on the water! ;) ;) Those storm clouds are a long way off.


http://i49.tinypic.com/4hzhuo.jpg

florida1098 11-07-2012 16:05

I have come to the calmness of just enjoying my things while I have/worked/earned them. My boat, home, truck, Glocks, are all going to be used heavily after this election, because I don't think or society as we know it can bare much more of Obama. I will enjoy them before they are taken away, looted, taxed to infinity, or stolen because THEY deserve them more than me

GeorgiaGlocker 11-07-2012 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi (Post 19604348)
The country has always been divided but your thoughts on THIS President are not true, at least according to the math.

He beat Romney by MORE votes than he beat McCain.

...he may be arrogant and thin skinned but he is also right. He has just given his *side* 8 years of presidency and national healthcare.

Because you and I cant stand him....doesnt change the fact he is a stone cold winner. Oh, that upsets me to no end, but it is still true.

This country has been divided to some degree but not to the extent that it is now.

In addition, your statement that Obama beat Romney by more votes than he beat Mcain is not true. Either by the popular vote or by the electorial college. I just looked it up.

I whole heartly disagree that Obama is right about anything.

briarpatch 11-07-2012 16:12

Not tin foil hat, but I dont believe anyone knows who voted for whom. I do believe the election was stolen. A lot going on and reid proved it could be done. No matter what group I have gotten in the last year or so and I asked who they would vote for 10 to 1 Romney. Not a poll for sure. Any way move on.

ray9898 11-07-2012 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi (Post 19604304)
The right needs to realize that there are a lot of people who ARE on the right or moderate, who are not "stupid" or whatever else the right thinks they are, they see themselves (or a pet issue) in jeapardy by the principles of the right...and in many cases, it is pretty understandable if you put yourselves in their shoes.

I believe that is because the right has stereotyped everyone who votes Democrat into some cute little package they can hate. They are either a worthless welfare recipient, a hippie, a gay rights activist or a supporter of illegal immigration.

They ignore there are millions of average everyday Americans, many who are educated and successful, who find them self in the middle. They may agree economically, agree with the Republicans military policy but they are turned off by some of the hard line stances on civil freedoms.

Many conservatives are passionate about the 2A, many on the fence are just as passionate over other freedoms the conservatives want to limit in the name of 'religious morals'.

Rabbi 11-07-2012 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve0853 (Post 19604430)
Rabbi, I believe you are wrong about the center right thing.

I always believed that, too. But yesterday was a full throated embrace of socialism. Every person who voted knew full well what the choice between Obama and Romney represented and as you stated, they overwhelmingly chose Obama.

At best the new reality is that America is center left, trending more left.

I disagree, YOU believe it is a choice between Socialism
(and whatever you believe in)

Most people simply voted because they had a pet issue or didnt like the other guy...and this is my point. YOU are making it about principles. Most people make it about issues.

Rabbi 11-07-2012 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGlocker (Post 19604525)
This country has been divided to some degree but not to the extent that it is now.

In addition, your statement that Obama beat Romney by more votes than he beat Mcain is not true. Either by the popular vote or by the electorial college. I just looked it up.

I whole heartly disagree that Obama is right about anything.

You are correct, I should have said that Romney recieved FEWER votes than McCain (which is true)

...and you cant disagree with Obama about winning because he did. You may not like anything about him but he is right about somethings. He is the president, you cant (logically) disagree with that. You can only not like it.

PaulMason 11-07-2012 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi (Post 19604190)

core message always comes back to principles. Be they fine and noble principles or not, still, principles.

If you dare to turn on "the enemy" and actually listen to what they are saying, they are talking about issues. Finite, definable issues.

Good points all. The Ds have the entertainment industry, education system and news media helping them. The Ds are also very good at marketing themselves and marketing against the Rs.

The Rs have nothing. When the Rs talk about the national debt they do not make it relevant to the voters. The Rs think people understand.

The key point is this - the trend is set for the decline of the USA. It is not a direct route down, there will be ups and downs along the way.

My guess is that we haven't hit bottom for this cycle. But we will be coming out of it towards the end of Obama's term and the Ds will take credit for the recovery.

The USA has followed and will continue to follow the path of all great powers into decline.

Rabbi 11-07-2012 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray9898 (Post 19604548)
I believe that is because the right has stereotyped everyone who votes Democrat into some cute little package they can hate. They are either a worthless welfare recipient, a hippie, a gay rights activist or a supporter of illegal immigration.

They ignore there are millions of average everyday Americans, many who are educated and successful, who find them self in the middle. They may agree economically and militarily with the Republicans but they are turned off by some of the hard line stances.

This is a rather brilliant observation and sums up what I was saying in really good terms.

People have to STOP thinking the other side is stupid (or gay, or a dumb minority or whatever) and start realizing WHY they make the choices they do. A lot of it is because You think they are stupid, or wrong, or immoral and they think you are a biggot who wants to crush freedom.

Until the right deals with that reality, they will keep having a hard time at the national level.

Rabbi 11-07-2012 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by briarpatch (Post 19604527)
Not tin foil hat, but I dont believe anyone knows who voted for whom. I do believe the election was stolen. A lot going on and reid proved it could be done. No matter what group I have gotten in the last year or so and I asked who they would vote for 10 to 1 Romney. Not a poll for sure. Any way move on.

Selection bias.

I could send you to a lot of places where the result would be the other way around.

...and lets be honest, the exit polls called it. People like Obama and they didnt like Romney.

No one stole anything. It was lost. Plain and simple.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:31.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2013, Glock Talk, All Rights Reserved.