Glock Talk

Glock Talk (http://glocktalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Political Issues (http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=57)
-   -   Why Romney lost (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1451875)

Ruble Noon 11-07-2012 17:28

Why Romney lost
 
Why did he lose? People didn't show up to vote for him. Romney garnered over 2 million less votes than did McCain while Obama was down 10 million votes over 2008.
Why did Romney get less votes the McCain? Because Romney is to the left of McCain. Conservatives don't want to vote for a progressive liberal. I'm sure the establishment mentality is to run someone further left than Romney in 2016 and repeat their loss. Maybe the republicans can run Valerie Jarret as they continue on their quest to appease the democrat party.

For all their talk and experience in business the republican party can't put together a winning model in the political arena. Why? Because they have failed to adjust to their market. They are going the way of buggy manufacturers if they do not retool.

If the republican party is to ever have any relevance they need to quit trying to out democrat the democrats and move back to conservatism.

Conservatism. What is conservatism? Conservatism is small government, fiscal responsibility and more freedom. That's what conservatism is about. What the party has become however is something totally different and we call that neoconservatism or social conservatism. Neocons believe in using the government to impress their morals upon others. This is more government, this is statism and is not conservatism. Until the republican party learns this, they will continue to lose.
You lose in these areas:
Abortion. My sate, Kansas, is the reddest of red. Churches are like convenience stores in that they are located on every corner yet, in this red state of mine, late term abortion is available. When our AG perpetrated an illegal war on abortion we gave him the boot. Abortion is legal. Yes it is taking a life but you can't change the fact that it is legal. Accept it, pray for people seeking abortions if you must but move on.
Gays: Like it or not, gays are people too and are guaranteed the same rights under the COTUS as anyone else. If you have a hang up on gays take the words of my pastor to heart, love the sinner hate the sin. Accept gays for who and what they are and move on.
Gay marriage: It is going to happen sooner or later. The republicans might as well capitalize on it and embrace it. Is gay marriage going to hurt you? No. Is gay marriage going to change your marriage in any way? No. Is the collapse of the economy because you fail to embrace people outside your norm and by doing so cutting you out of the political process going to have any effect on you? Absolutely. Move on.

Now a bunch of you people are going to look at the above points and claim that's liberal. In the classical sense, you would be right. In modern use of the term, you'd be wrong.
When you advocate government using force to instill your morals or agenda on the populace do not complain when the other side reciprocates and turns government on you.

Some of you are blaming the other side for yesterdays defeat and some of you will no doubt blame the libertarians. Let me ask you, if a quarterback throws an interception and the other team scores points off of that interception is it the other teams fault or is it the fault of the quarterback for throwing the ball to the wrong team?

alwaysshootin 11-07-2012 17:44

The only reason Romney lost, and the only reason, is because he was mistaken about the 47%! It's in the 50's, and that won't change except for the worse.

itstime 11-07-2012 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysshootin (Post 19604875)
The only reason Romney lost, and the only reason, is because he was mistaken about the 47%! It's in the 50's, and that won't change except for the worse.

Sad but true.

alwaysshootin 11-07-2012 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by itstime (Post 19604906)
Sad but true.

I'm feeling it's much, much, worse than sad!

jdavionic 11-07-2012 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysshootin (Post 19604875)
The only reason Romney lost, and the only reason, is because he was mistaken about the 47%! It's in the 50's, and that won't change except for the worse.

Yep...as I posted elsewhere. It's official. The parasites now outnumber the hosts.

GAFinch 11-07-2012 18:09

See, that's the thing - Romney was absolutely not to the left of McCain, but you guys took all the false propaganda against him from Rockwell's site and repeated it everywhere else, disheartening conservatives who didn't see through your BS.

BTW, I seem to remember you guys being pro-life during the primaries. What happened to that charade?

Stubudd 11-07-2012 18:11

Great post ruble

Stubudd 11-07-2012 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAFinch (Post 19604995)
See, that's the thing - Romney was absolutely not to the left of McCain, but you guys took all the false propaganda against him from Rockwell's site and repeated it everywhere else, disheartening conservatives who didn't see through your BS.

BTW, I seem to remember you guys being pro-life during the primaries. What happened to that charade?

lol....

we're doomed

Ruble Noon 11-07-2012 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAFinch (Post 19604995)
See, that's the thing - Romney was absolutely not to the left of McCain, but you guys took all the false propaganda against him from Rockwell's site and repeated it everywhere else, disheartening conservatives who didn't see through your BS.

BTW, I seem to remember you guys being pro-life during the primaries. What happened to that charade?

I am pro life but that doesn't change the fact that abortion is legal and the social conservatives can't do anything to change it. Move on.

madbaumer 11-07-2012 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysshootin (Post 19604875)
The only reason Romney lost, and the only reason, is because he was mistaken about the 47%! It's in the 50's, and that won't change except for the worse.

Correct, the FSA is larger that we believed.

Ruble Noon 11-07-2012 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubudd (Post 19604999)
Great post ruble

Thanks Stu. :wavey:

jdavionic 11-07-2012 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon (Post 19605018)
I am pro life but that doesn't change the fact that abortion is legal and the social conservatives can't do anything to change it. Move on.

The whole abortion issue is a rope-a-dope that the GOP falls into every time. I am pro life as well. However I also recognize that I am pro life because of MY beliefs. I don't want others imposing their beliefs on me, nor do I want to impose mine on them. I will get my message / opinion out to support pro life decisions. However if some people choose to have abortions as a means of birth control, then they have that option. It won't be me that judges them.

Yet time & time again, the issue comes up in the election. When it came up this time, Romney should have just said - 'my beliefs are irrelevant and won't be discussed. Abortion should be a state-level issue that is decided by the people in that state. It's not a Federal issue. End of story.'

countrygun 11-07-2012 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavionic (Post 19605044)
The whole abortion issue is a rope-a-dope that the GOP falls into every time. I am pro life as well. However I also recognize that I am pro life because of MY beliefs. I don't want others imposing their beliefs on me, nor do I want to impose mine on them. I will get my message / opinion out to support pro life decisions. However if some people choose to have abortions as a means of birth control, then they have that option. It won't be me that judges them.

Yet time & time again, the issue comes up in the election. When it came up this time, Romney should have just said - 'my beliefs are irrelevant and won't be discussed. Abortion should be a state-level issue that is decided by the people in that state. It's not a Federal issue. End of story.'

That is exactly it. But, Romney wasn't running on changing anything. The Dems just created the illusion, as if a POTUS could.

ColdSteelNail 11-07-2012 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon (Post 19605018)
I am pro life but that doesn't change the fact that abortion is legal and the social conservatives can't do anything to change it. Move on.

By abandoning pro life and opposition to same sex marriage and other issues the left will point that all along the right has just been playing the religious establishment for their vote and money. Of course they would be right. That is a lose lose proposition for the right.

beforeobamabans 11-07-2012 18:28

Ruble, I appreciate your post-mortem and I have appreciated your steadfast reliance on principle throughout this election season.

However, I disagree with you on a couple of points. First, Romney lost because he was the last candidate preferred by most Republicans. Nationally, the GOP repeated the error we made in Indiana in our 2010 Senate primary race: we allowed too many real conservatives to divide the vote and let the "moderate" win. We need to get behind one, and only one, real rock-ribbed conservative in the next presidential primary and drive him through victory.

Secondly, "Neoconservatism" has nothing to do with moral or domestic issues. Look it up. Neoconservatism was begun by democrat Jews disaffected by their party's retrenchment in foreign affairs following Vietnam. Bill Kristol's father Irving is credited as the "godfather" of the movement creating a holocaust-centric world view whereby America acts as the world's policeman in a rearguard action protecting Jews worldwide. Self-identified modern day "conservatives" have bought into this foreign policy doctrine without even knowing it's origins or purpose.

Finally, you cannot ask people to divorce their deeply held morals in politics when these morals are governed by the state. Abortion is wrong. Gay marriage is wrong. As long as these activities are governed by the state, I will not "move on". The problem with purist libertarianism is that it provides no moral fabric for society through laws that control man's most evil actions.

IvanVic 11-07-2012 18:33

Romney lost for several reasons:

1) Pandering to the base during the primary required him to say some things that he never recovered from
2) The GOP did not correctly gauge a rapidly changing demographic
3) The media exploited radical statements made by a few party members and successfully painted the entire party with the same brush
4) Actual viable candidates like Santorum spouting off on social issues gave the impression that he represented Romney and the rest of the party
5) The country is becoming more envious of successful people, they want more free stuff, more entitlements, etc

jdavionic 11-07-2012 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by beforeobamabans (Post 19605085)
The problem with purist libertarianism is that it provides no moral fabric for society through laws that control man's most evil actions.

I don't necessarily agree with this part. Let's look at Ron Paul as an example. Personally, I don't care for many things he says and think he's a nutjob based on a few comments (like his debate comment on fences). However, the press and GOP routinely mischaracterize his position on drugs and prostitution. They ask him whether federal laws should be repealed for both. He says "yes". However his answer always includes that these matters should be addressed at the state level, not federal level. I view gay marriage, abortion, etc in the same manner.

countrygun 11-07-2012 18:45

Odd things happened.

When Ryan was asked about Marijuana he said the it was a State level issue. Sounds pretty libertarian to me. Has Obama said that or done anything to support the States Rights on the issue-NO

Romney got jumped about his statement concerning FEMA when he said that it should rest on the States, municipalities and private charities. Sounds pretty much like the Libertarian position I used to vote for. That is one of the responsibilities that come with rights. Obama? He throws the Federal Government at it, poorly. Pretty anti-libertarian to me.

Romney leaned much further towards States Rights (which was one of the keystones of the libertarian party I used to vote for) than Obama by one heck of a long shot.

All I can say is either the libertarians no longer want to make inroads on that front, or they actually do and voted for Romney and the ones we are hearing from have a different agenda. If they are happy that a man is in office that has tried to crush States Rights (arizona comes to mind as do the DEA weed busts in CA) then they must not be the States Rights Libertarian party anymore.

Stubudd 11-07-2012 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by beforeobamabans (Post 19605085)
Secondly, "Neoconservatism" has nothing to do with moral or domestic issues. Look it up.

Every definition i can find that is longer than 10 words mentions morality, traditional values, social conservatism, or something like that.

Ruble Noon 11-07-2012 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by beforeobamabans (Post 19605085)
Ruble, I appreciate your post-mortem and I have appreciated your steadfast reliance on principle throughout this election season.

However, I disagree with you on a couple of points. First, Romney lost because he was the last candidate preferred by most Republicans. Nationally, the GOP repeated the error we made in Indiana in our 2010 Senate primary race: we allowed too many real conservatives to divide the vote and let the "moderate" win. We need to get behind one, and only one, real rock-ribbed conservative in the next presidential primary and drive him through victory.

Secondly, "Neoconservatism" has nothing to do with moral or domestic issues. Look it up. Neoconservatism was begun by democrat Jews disaffected by their party's retrenchment in foreign affairs following Vietnam. Bill Kristol's father Irving is credited as the "godfather" of the movement creating a holocaust-centric world view whereby America acts as the world's policeman in a rearguard action protecting Jews worldwide. Self-identified modern day "conservatives" have bought into this foreign policy doctrine without even knowing it's origins or purpose.

Finally, you cannot ask people to divorce their deeply held morals in politics when these morals are governed by the state. Abortion is wrong. Gay marriage is wrong. As long as these activities are governed by the state, I will not "move on". The problem with purist libertarianism is that it provides no moral fabric for society through laws that control man's most evil actions.

You don't have to abandon your morals, exercise them freely in you state but keep them out of federal elections as they do not belong there.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:26.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2013, Glock Talk, All Rights Reserved.