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-   -   P30 vs G17 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1453343)

high ground 11-15-2012 17:00

P30 vs G17
 
Practicing up for an upcoming IPSC match. I shoot production with the 17 usually. After going through my usual drills, I ran about 100 rounds through my newly acquired P30. Did the same drills as I did with the G17. It shot more accurately, but slower. So now I have to ask myself. Speed (G17) or accuracy (P30)? The speed difference wasn't huge. I think the points would be more advantageous than the speed. Only catch is that the only holster I have for the P30 is an iwb. What would you guys do?
Side note. I am digging the LEM trigger with light hammer and fp safety springs. Trigger return spring is the heavy. AKA Todd Green version.


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barth 11-15-2012 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by high ground (Post 19635509)
Practicing up for an upcoming IPSC match. I shoot production with the 17 usually. After going through my usual drills, I ran about 100 rounds through my newly acquired P30. Did the same drills as I did with the G17. It shot more accurately, but slower. So now I have to ask myself. Speed (G17) or accuracy (P30)? The speed difference wasn't huge. I think the points would be more advantageous than the speed. Only catch is that the only holster I have for the P30 is an iwb. What would you guys do?
Side note. I am digging the LEM trigger with light hammer and fp safety springs. Trigger return spring is the heavy. AKA Todd Green version.

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I'd practice more with the P30 and dial up the speed.
I've got a P30 40, HK45C and two P2000 357s.
All Light LEM.
All ROCK!

I do shoot extremely well with my G27 40-9mm too though - LOL!

Kimura 11-15-2012 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by barth (Post 19635586)
I'd practice more with the P30 and dial up the speed.
[/I]

You could do this or put a fitted or semi fitted barrel into the Glock which would negate the accuracy difference. By semi fitted I mean something like the Wilson Combat barrel, which is said to be drop in, but I've never heard of anyone that didn't have to do a bit of fitting with it. KKM makes a drop in barrel for Glocks that reportedly gives a pretty decent accuracy improvement over the stock barrel, though I've never used one, so I can't tell you.

I do understand your dilemma. I have a Sig P226 that's extremely accurate. I don't notice a big difference between the Sig and my Glock until I get to 15 yards and beyond. At 15-25 yards, the Sig is significantly more accurate than my Glock. This despite the fact that my Glock is fairly accurate.

Personally I think it depends on which gun you like better. If that's the HK, stick with the HK until you get more proficient with it. If it's the Glock, just replace the barrel.

barth 11-15-2012 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimura (Post 19635672)
You could do this or put a fitted or semi fitted barrel into the Glock which would negate the accuracy difference. By semi fitted I mean something like the Wilson Combat barrel, which is said to be drop in, but I've never heard of anyone that didn't have to do a bit of fitting with it. KKM makes a drop in barrel for Glocks that reportedly gives a pretty decent accuracy improvement over the stock barrel, though I've never used one, so I can't tell you.

I do understand your dilemma. I have a Sig P226 that's extremely accurate. I don't notice a big difference between the Sig and my Glock until I get to 15 yards and beyond. At 15-25 yards, the Sig is significantly more accurate than my Glock. This despite the fact that my Glock is fairly accurate.

Personally I think it depends on which gun you like better. If that's the HK, stick with the HK until you get more proficient with it. If it's the Glock, just replace the barrel.

I do have a Storm Lake 40-9mm in my Glock G27.
And it's just as much a nail driver as my H&K P30 40.
I actually shoot the Glock a little better.

I don't shoot competitively.
But if I did, I'd send my favorite gun to Jarvis or Bar-Sto
for a professionally fitted competition target barrel.
Not sure if you have many options with a HK P30?
But a Glock G17? No Problemo

Play with Power

NEOH212 11-16-2012 05:00

Take the one that gives you the edge in competition. Keep practicing with both.

I was told by many people that I'd never be able to shoot well with a DA/SA gun and that I needed DAO, especially because I'm a girl.

Not only did I prove them wrong, I can out shoot them regularly! I don't find DA/SA or HK's in general any slower in actual firing than a Glock.

Speed wise, I'm just as fast shooting a HK as I am a Glock but far more accurate.

Does this mean the HK is more inherently accurate than a Glock? I wouldn't say so but I will say it means that I shoot the HK better!

barth 11-16-2012 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOH212 (Post 19637040)
Take the one that gives you the edge in competition. Keep practicing with both.

I was told by many people that I'd never be able to shoot well with a DA/SA gun and that I needed DAO, especially because I'm a girl.

Not only did I prove them wrong, I can out shoot them regularly! I don't find DA/SA or HK's in general any slower in actual firing than a Glock.

Speed wise, I'm just as fast shooting a HK as I am a Glock but far more accurate.

Does this mean the HK is more inherently accurate than a Glock? I wouldn't say so but I will say it means that I shoot the HK better!

+1
When folks say they shoot one gun more accurately that another.
It's usually more of a trigger, sights, grip angle, familiarity and ergonomics thingy.
The Human Factor.

Lock both guns in a ransom rest and they will likely shoot much better than you can.

That said,
some experienced shooters can tell the difference between an OEM
and a third party match grade barrel.
Literally tighter groups you can easily seen and duplicate with consistency.

My personal experience?
1) Storm Lake in my Glock, and Bar Sto in my Sig Sauers,
give me a very real improvement over standard OEM barrels.

2) I find my four Hecker and Koch OEM barrels to be near
match grade as shipped.
Particularly the HK45C.

3) Barrels, and how they fit in a slide, seem to be unique.
Fired from the same G27;
Storm Lake G27 and G23 40-9mm barrels clearly favor different
weight, and manufacturer, ammunition.
And these two related sisters don't agree on what they favor.

4) My OEM Sig Sauer P220 Sport 5.47" stainless steel match grade heavy contoured barrel continues to out shoot three times the price third party match barrels.
Go figure?
And no - that barrel is NOT for sale.

Have fun and know your limitations.

SouthpawG26 11-16-2012 06:41

Every IPSC/USPSA instructor will teach you to be accurate first, honing your fundamentals to put out an accurate shot, and then to progress by speeding up the execution of all those fundamentals.

But not the other way around. Be accurate first.

HexHead 11-16-2012 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthpawG26 (Post 19637154)
Every IPSC/USPSA instructor will teach you to be accurate first, honing your fundamentals to put out an accurate shot, and then to progress by speeding up the execution of all those fundamentals.

But not the other way around. Be accurate first.

You have to be awfully fast to make up for the penalty time added for misses.

BuckyP 11-16-2012 07:04

My G34's accuracy was pretty disappointing with the 147 load I was using. It shot great with 115s. Now that I've tried a different powder, my new 147 loads are very accurate. Have you tied different ammo?


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cowboy1964 11-16-2012 07:36

I dislike switching back and forth between striker guns (Glock and M&Ps mostly) and hammer guns (like my P30). I shoot the strikers 90% of the time so I just never get enough time in on the hammers to get as good with them. However, there is no doubt a good SA trigger is easier to shoot well.

high ground 11-16-2012 08:21

I think where the speed factor came in was with familiarity. I've been shooting Glocks exclusively for years and I think I was being more deliberate with the trigger on the P30. Another few hundred rounds and I think I could get the speed up on the P30. Unfortunately not many (if any) LGS stock P30 kydex holsters, so no HK for Sundays match.

And, by the way, thanks for the responses.

Kimura 11-16-2012 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by barth (Post 19637103)

2) I find my four Hecker and Koch OEM barrels to be near
match grade as shipped.
Particularly the HK45C.

3) Barrels, and how they fit in a slide, seem to be unique.
Fired from the same G27;
Storm Lake G27 and G23 40-9mm barrels clearly favor different
weight, and manufacturer, ammunition.
And these two related sisters don't agree on what they favor.

These things don't surprise me as HKs are known for being match grade accurate. Both LAV and Ken Hackathorn have said that the HK 45 can shoot with a custom 1911 in the accuracy department.

I agree with you about barrels which is why if accuracy improvement is what someone is looking for, a fitted barrel is money well spent.

Personally, I'm less comfortable with the Sig as compared to my Glock, but more accurate with it. I really don't think it's me; I really do believe the gun is more mechanically accurate. Same reason that I can shoot a USP 9 more accurately than my Glock, I think, mechanically, it's just a more accurate pistol.

barth 11-16-2012 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimura (Post 19638840)
These things don't surprise me as HKs are known for being match grade accurate. Both LAV and Ken Hackathorn have said that the HK 45 can shoot with a custom 1911 in the accuracy department.

I agree with you about barrels which is why if accuracy improvement is what someone is looking for, a fitted barrel is money well spent.

Personally, I'm less comfortable with the Sig as compared to my Glock, but more accurate with it. I really don't think it's me; I really do believe the gun is more mechanically accurate. Same reason that I can shoot a USP 9 more accurately than my Glock, I think, mechanically, it's just a more accurate pistol.

I too feel generally speaking;
out of the box H&K and Sig guns truly are mechanically more accurate than Glocks.

My Glock G27 has been at test platform for me to experiment with different calibers, sights, barrels (OEM & Third Party) triggers and more....
The result has been a sum greater than the parts thingy.
Particularly in 9mm and 357 Sig I've had outstanding results.
Tricked out shes one of my favorite guns.

But out of the box G27? Not so much...
The phrase Combat Accurate comes to mind.

Green Dragoon 11-17-2012 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOH212 (Post 19637040)
Take the one that gives you the edge in competition. Keep practicing with both.

I was told by many people that I'd never be able to shoot well with a DA/SA gun and that I needed DAO, especially because I'm a girl.

Not only did I prove them wrong, I can out shoot them regularly! I don't find DA/SA or HK's in general any slower in actual firing than a Glock.

Speed wise, I'm just as fast shooting a HK as I am a Glock but far more accurate.

Does this mean the HK is more inherently accurate than a Glock? I wouldn't say so but I will say it means that I shoot the HK better!

good post all around

Aceman 11-17-2012 10:56

Get the right Holster
Practice

The P30 is a better pistol than the Glock will ever be.

Similar example: Once you learn to only let an AK trigger out to the reset - it is one fast moro.

It's you - it's not the HK.

barth 11-17-2012 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceman (Post 19640984)
Get the right Holster
Practice

The P30 is a better pistol than the Glock will ever be.

Similar example: Once you learn to only let an AK trigger out to the reset - it is one fast moro.

It's you - it's not the HK.

My four HKs are all Light LEM.
I like to take up the light pre-travel to the wall.
Then squeeze for a ~5 lbs break.
Followed by riding natural reset for the next shot.

I've never shot competition.
But it seems fast, fast, fast to me.

bac1023 11-22-2012 16:08

It's no comparison for me. HK all the way.

33rdglock17 11-22-2012 19:48

I love the P30... It likely has the best grip of any gun on earth. I just cannot get past the magazine release so I will likely never buy one

Patriot328 11-23-2012 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33rdglock17 (Post 19659387)
I love the P30... It likely has the best grip of any gun on earth. I just cannot get past the magazine release so I will likely never buy one

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to say it doesn't take that long to learn the mag release on the HKs. I actually use my trigger finger to release it. It's very fast and I don't have to adjust my grip like I do on some other semi autos when I use my thumb.


The P30 is an awesome pistol. Probably the nicest 9mm out there.

barth 11-24-2012 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot328 (Post 19663000)
I understand where you're coming from, but I have to say it doesn't take that long to learn the mag release on the HKs. I actually use my trigger finger to release it. It's very fast and I don't have to adjust my grip like I do on some other semi autos when I use my thumb.


The P30 is an awesome pistol. Probably the nicest 9mm out there.

+1
Having 20+ years with standard auto releases.
I too was very concerned with the euro mag release.

Transitioned to it easily and it's truly no problemo.
HK P30 40, P2000 357 & HK45C - All Light LEM.


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