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-   -   Trouble indicates better things to come. (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1454600)

Vic Hays 11-24-2012 07:14

Trouble indicates better things to come.
 
“At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.” [Daniel 12:1.]

Jesus stops his ministry in the heavenly sanctuary on our behalf and in His warrior name comes again to stop the violence and misery that man of sin have brought about. The time of probation is over. Everyone that has chosen His side will joyfully receive their salvation.

FCoulter 11-24-2012 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays (Post 19663528)
“At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.” [Daniel 12:1.]

Jesus stops his ministry in the heavenly sanctuary on our behalf and in His warrior name comes again to stop the violence and misery that man of sin have brought about. The time of probation is over. Everyone that has chosen His side will joyfully receive their salvation.

Wow, that is too funny saying Jesus has a warrior name (michael). Vic, you really need to study the Bible more and not SDA tracks.

janice6 11-24-2012 12:01

Trouble indicates better things to come.



Unfortunately, that is similar to saying that my thumb feel better when I quit hitting it with the hammer.

Japle 11-24-2012 19:08

Quote:

Posted by Vic:
Jesus stops his ministry in the heavenly sanctuary on our behalf and in His warrior name comes again to stop the violence and misery that man of sin have brought about. The time of probation is over. Everyone that has chosen His side will joyfully receive their salvation.
What's the timetable on this? Seems like we've been waiting a loooong time!

muscogee 11-24-2012 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japle (Post 19665127)
What's the timetable on this? Seems like we've been waiting a loooong time!

Every generation since the death of Jesus thought it would be the one to see his return.

Vic Hays 11-24-2012 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japle (Post 19665127)
What's the timetable on this? Seems like we've been waiting a loooong time!

Actually it is pretty simple if you know a little Bible.

The verses and chapters were added to make studying and quoting easier, but they sometimes interrupt the flow.

If you notice the verse in chapter 12 verse one begins with "at that time". The answer is in the previous chapter.

The king of the South is the Islamic Caliph. The nations of the Mideast are all expecting to join into that Caliphate. You notice it talks about Egypt and Libya.

Daniel 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Daniel 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Notice that verse 45 speaks of the glorious holy mountain. This language indicates that modern day Israel will not be able to hold onto Jerusalem. It will be taken by the king of the south.

It will not be long. Events are unfolding rapidly.

Japle 11-24-2012 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japle:
What's the timetable on this? Seems like we've been waiting a loooong time!

Response by Vic:
Actually it is pretty simple if you know a little Bible.
……. It will not be long. Events are unfolding rapidly.
Right. We’ve been hearing that for 2,000 years.

In Mark, chapter 13, Jesus speaks of a "tribulation", nation rising against nation, earthquakes, and the coming of false Christs and false prophets, the stars falling from the sky, and the coming of the Son of Man "in the clouds with great power and glory". Then, in verse 30, he tells when this will happen. "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

Looks like the train left the station and no one noticed. :whistling:

Brasso 11-24-2012 23:19

The word for generation in that verse is better translated as tribe, people, or age.

G1074
γενεά
genea
ghen-eh-ah'
From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.

Jer 31:35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:
Jer 31:36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”
Jer 31:37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה.
Jer 31:38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate.
Jer 31:39 “And the measuring line shall again extend straight ahead to the hill Garĕḇ, then it shall turn toward Goʽah.
Jer 31:40 “And all the valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the wadi Qiḏron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, is to be set-apart to יהוה. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down any more forever.”

Mar 13:30 “Truly, I say to you, this generation shall by no means pass away till all this takes place.
Mar 13:31 “The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away.

Tilley 11-25-2012 02:48

So let me get this straight Vic...you believe that Jesus is also the Arc Angel Micheal?

Vic Hays 11-25-2012 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilley (Post 19666025)
So let me get this straight Vic...you believe that Jesus is also the Arc Angel Micheal?

Are you asking a serious question or have you joined with the scoffers?

Jesus has a lot of names. Arc Angel means the one who is over the angels like an arch is over a doorway.

For one who does not have a closed mind and understands English I would like to point out that not only does Daniel chapter 12 talk about the warrior persona of Michael but Paul and John do also. They both connect Him to the second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Jesus shouts with the voice of the archangel. The angels of heaven belong to Him. He leads the angels into battle. Jesus has many names. Jesus, Savior, Lord of Lords, Prince of Peace, the Lamb, the Word, Emmanuel, the Branch, The Lord of Hosts, Wonderful, Counselor, Almighty God, the Everlasting Father, and Michael.

Joshua 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
Joshua 5:15 And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Search the Bible and you will not find an angel making such a pronouncement of holy ground except at the burning bush and you know who was present at the burning bush don't you?

Brasso 11-25-2012 08:17

There are several arch angels. Michael is the angel designated to guard Israel. It's no wonder that he would come fighting with Messiah.

However, Yeshua is called YHWH Tsevaot (Lord of Hosts). A much higher title.


Half of the holy city will be taken. This is because Israel did not follow YHWH's Torah when they came back into the Land from exile. God gave them victory in 1967 and '72. They were supposed to drive the pagans out of the Land and set up the Temple. They didn't. They let an abomination stand in the Holy Place. They left the throne of the enemy in their midst and the enemy will take what is his. However,the Land doesn't belong to Israel. It belongs to YHWH. He only gave it to Israel, but it's His. And when the enemy takes His Land and His holy city, He will come down and fight.

Zec 14:1 See, a day shall come for יהוה, and your spoil shall be divided in your midst.
Zec 14:2 And I shall gather all the gentiles to battle against Yerushalayim1. And the city shall be taken, the houses plundered, and the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into exile, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Footnote: 1Joel 3:2, Zeph. 3:8, Rev. 16:14.
Zec 14:3 And יהוה shall go forth, and He shall fight against those gentiles, as He fights in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And in that day His feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives, which faces Yerushalayim on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, a very great valley, and half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And you shall flee to the valley of My mountain – for the valley of the mountains reaches to Atsal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziyah sovereign of Yehuḏah. And יהוה my Elohim shall come – all the set-apart ones with You.
Zec 14:6 And in that day it shall be: there is no light, it is dark.
Zec 14:7 And it shall be one day which is known to יהוה, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And in that day it shall be that living waters flow from Yerushalayim1, half of them toward the eastern sea and half of them toward the western sea, in summer as well as in winter. Footnote: 1Rev. 22:1-2.
Zec 14:9 And יהוה shall be Sovereign over all the earth1. In that day there shall be one יהוה, and His Name one.

Vic Hays 11-25-2012 10:30

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Matthew 16:2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

FCoulter 11-25-2012 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays (Post 19666039)
Are you asking a serious question or have you joined with the scoffers?

Jesus has a lot of names. Arc Angel means the one who is over the angels like an arch is over a doorway.

For one who does not have a closed mind and understands English I would like to point out that not only does Daniel chapter 12 talk about the warrior persona of Michael but Paul and John do also. They both connect Him to the second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Jesus shouts with the voice of the archangel. The angels of heaven belong to Him. He leads the angels into battle. Jesus has many names. Jesus, Savior, Lord of Lords, Prince of Peace, the Lamb, the Word, Emmanuel, the Branch, The Lord of Hosts, Wonderful, Counselor, Almighty God, the Everlasting Father, and Michael.

Joshua 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
Joshua 5:15 And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Search the Bible and you will not find an angel making such a pronouncement of holy ground except at the burning bush and you know who was present at the burning bush don't you?

I guess you dont understand english or Greek or hebrew.
Michael will fight with Jesus, but nowhere on scripture is Jesus refereed to s Michael or vise versa. This is a teaching of Ellen White not God.


I wont go into any more detail of the many errors of EW sice KingArthur is no longer here to help you out.

Japle 11-25-2012 15:27

Quote:

Posted by me:
In Mark, chapter 13, Jesus speaks of a "tribulation", nation rising against nation, earthquakes, and the coming of false Christs and false prophets, the stars falling from the sky, and the coming of the Son of Man "in the clouds with great power and glory". Then, in verse 30, he tells when this will happen. "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

Looks like the train left the station and no one noticed.
Quote:

Response by Brasso:
The word for generation in that verse is better translated as tribe, people, or age.
Sure it is. :upeyes: Christians have been using that excuse (and many others) to explain why a simple declarative statement means something other than what it says.

Just for fun, please tell us exactly what tribe, people, or age Jesus was referring to.

Thanks in advance.

Vic Hays 11-25-2012 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCoulter (Post 19667374)
I guess you dont understand english or Greek or hebrew.
Michael will fight with Jesus, but nowhere on scripture is Jesus refereed to s Michael or vise versa. This is a teaching of Ellen White not God.

I wont go into any more detail of the many errors of EW sice KingArthur is no longer here to help you out.

I don't know how you guys think that Jesus shouts with some one else's voice when the Bible is specific that it is "the Lord himself". Do you think that this kind of irrational thinking lends credibility to your bias and predjudices.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

FCoulter 11-25-2012 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays (Post 19667772)
I don't know how you guys think that Jesus shouts with some one else's voice when the Bible is specific that it is "the Lord himself". Do you think that this kind of irrational thinking lends credibility to your bias and predjudices.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Vic, it also says according to your twist of scripture God is a trumpet. LolAnd descending with the voice of the archangel does not say Jesus was the archangel, it says what it says He came as the voice of the archangel sounded.

Vic Hays 11-25-2012 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCoulter (Post 19668033)
Vic, it also says according to your twist of scripture God is a trumpet. LolAnd descending with the voice of the archangel does not say Jesus was the archangel, it says what it says He came as the voice of the archangel sounded.

Thank you, you made my point on irrational reasoning.

Geko45 11-25-2012 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays (Post 19668568)
Thank you, you made my point on irrational reasoning.

Vic, you believe a magical being is going to come save you from demons and eternal damnation because an archaic book says so with absolutely no proof whatsoever. You're not in a position to question someone else's reasoning.

Animal Mother 11-25-2012 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brasso (Post 19666314)
There are several arch angels. Michael is the angel designated to guard Israel. It's no wonder that he would come fighting with Messiah.

However, Yeshua is called YHWH Tsevaot (Lord of Hosts). A much higher title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCoulter (Post 19667374)
I guess you dont understand english or Greek or hebrew.
Michael will fight with Jesus, but nowhere on scripture is Jesus refereed to s Michael or vise versa. This is a teaching of Ellen White not God.


I wont go into any more detail of the many errors of EW sice KingArthur is no longer here to help you out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays (Post 19667772)
I don't know how you guys think that Jesus shouts with some one else's voice when the Bible is specific that it is "the Lord himself". Do you think that this kind of irrational thinking lends credibility to your bias and predjudices.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Don't fight guys. Just take comfort in the fact that, like everyone who has made prophetic predictions based on scriptural interpretation, you're all wrong.

JBnTX 11-25-2012 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geko45 (Post 19668710)
Vic, you believe a magical being is going to come save you from demons and eternal damnation because an archaic book says so with absolutely no proof whatsoever. You're not in a position to question someone else's reasoning.


It's a spiritual being, not magical one.

That "archaic" book is more relevant today than it was 2000 years ago.

Just because you can't see or recognize the proof, doesn't mean it's not there. You have no proof of my existence, but you think I'm real.


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