Let's write a revised Moral Code.
 

"Morality" is the yardstick with which we measure acceptable versus unacceptable human behavior.

The goal of this is to provide for a stable society, within which we all may flourish to the best of our ability.

I do not believe it is necessary for morality to be based upon religious principals.

I think it is enough that a moral precept either works or not.

The 10 Commandments are as good a place to start as any.

First off, I think the first five commandments can be junked and ignored.

"I am your God, You have no other Gods, You will make no graven images of other Gods, You will not diss me by taking my name in vain. You will worship my glorious self".

Are of any relevence only IF "God" actually exists.

An existence that the religiously inclined can never seem to prove to be an unmistakeable truth.

It is always based on "faith", which is to say it is nothing more than "opinion", since God, if he/she/it actually does exist, does not seem to ever make that existence unmistakeably clear to all.

I believe that Moses himself wrote the 1st Five Commandments for their practical effect, which was to place all authority over the State of Israel that he founded, firmly in his own, personal, MORTAL, hands and keep it there during his own lifetime and keep it there within his own family, the Levites, thereafter.

"King" Moses (in all but name) and the "Royal Family of Levi" that he made supreme over the other Tribes of Israel, who were thereafter, the serfs and cannon fodder for the "Holy" Levites.

So as to C's I through V, scrap 'em.

In terms of "morality" they are irrelevent.

So, the basis for REAL morality is found in the second Five of the Commandments.

Honor your Parents. Do not Murder. Do not have sex with anyone you are not married to. Do not steal. Do not covet things you have no right to.

Failure to observe and enforce any of these latter five are generally disruptive to the stability of any Sociey as a whole.

And thus, these are correct examples of "Proper Morality" and violations of them are "Immorality".

It is difficult for individuals, or families, to flourish if they have to exist in an unstable environment/society.

There is an ancient Chinese curse that says "May you live in interesting times". "Interesting" being defined as things like wars sweeping through your country, famines, plagues, fire, flood, earthquake, and the like.

"Uninteresting" meant stable.

I would add several more.

11. Thou shalt not initiate violence against another.

12. Thou shalt not suffer another to initiate violence against thyself.

(Offensive violence is immoral and unacceptable, Defensive violence is moral and acceptable)

13. Thou shalt not act in callous disregard of the well being of others.

(Such as, dealing in drugs to enrich yourself by shortening or ending the lives of others.)

Who wants to take a swing at #14 and beyond?

:dunno:

A moral code based upon what exactly?

You guys are way over thinking things...

Don't be a dick.

Only morality anyone will ever need.

Based on the fact that grownups can have a conversation about how they'd like to be treated and how to treat others. Then they can agree to adhere to some very basic rules and follow through with that.

The problem is in separating the perceived injustices from the actual ones. For instance, you might take issue with somebody boinking your wife. That's between you and her, not the government and the guy she escaped boredom for a day with.

Maybe you cussed out your drunk father and crackhead mother because they really deserve it. Why do we need the law to step in and make determinations about the guilt level of every parent? Sounds like something they've been itching to do for some time anyway.

!
 

Ah, Duuuuhhhhhhh!

A moral code based upon itself.

:upeyes:

There's always this oldy but goody:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


Slightly melodramatic language, but no more silly than any of the others. Maybe the "power of magic" one, but that just makes it equal to the various religious rule lists.

Where does our conscience come from, if not from God? How would Darwinism create a sense of duty which can sometimes lead someone to deny the will to live?

Moral goodness and happiness ought to go together in a reasonable and just world. Good people should be happy, evil people should be unhappy. But in reality, there is no such constant correlation. Therefore God must exist to eventually uphold intelligence, justice, and purity of motives, making good people happy in heaven.

As for initiating violence against another, there's a story out of California today that sort of warms my heart. A San Francisco lady had lost $1000 worth of goods delivered to her front porch this fall. So Miss Yu set out bait, more goods on her porch, and waited. Andy Anduha, 51, showed up to steal the goods (it's said that he also has a rap sheet involving rape). Miss Yu charged out and sprayed half a can of bear pepper spray on him and chased him down the street, brandishing her bokken (Japanese training sword). She citizens-arrested him and called police. Police Sgt Michael Andrychuk said police laughed when they saw Miss Yu's bokken, but they arrested the bad guy and hauled him off. Sgt Andrychuk says folks shouldn't "take the law into their own hands"..."for safety's sake", but citizen's arrest is legal if you witness the crime, and self-defense is okay "within reason" while trying to make that arrest.

You have a very naive view of the human race. If this were possible, there wouldn't have been laws in the first place.

Good luck with that.

I like these! :supergrin:

We can't possibly do any worse than what religion has offered.

Those were the 11 Rules Satanic of the Earth - Church of Satan (Anton LaVey, 1966)

Their other rule lists include:


It is fairly questionable whether the CoS really is a religion, since they don't actually believe any supernatural being exist, including "satan."

Yes we can, and we have.
We've done a lot worse than what God had planned for Mankind.

The world we live in today is a direct result of man turning away from God.
God could have done a lot better job, if only we would have let him.

..

as you said, the first 5 are all "i am god, love me or else".....the next 5 are the morality based ideas....

So your point of view is that men are so powerful that they can thwart the plans of god? Cool. But if that's true, why are we supposed to worship him?

You sure about that?

Okay, so we just don't tell anybody that. :supergrin:

i gotta giggle when i read .....God will slay his ass.....

!
 

So, you can prove God exists?

If not, how do you "know" "conscience" "comes from" a God you cannot prove exists?

I was raised a Christian. I was taught all 10 Commandments.

Once I recognized that the first five C's were bulldookey, intended to manipulate me for the benefit of the Shamans, (as it was in the days of "King" Moses and still is to this very day) I just stuck with the final Five C's that do have moral value and they are enough.

So, you can also prove heaven exists?

If not, then how can you "know" what any of us are going to actually find after our own, individual, deaths? :dunno:

Heaven and Hell are just part of the scam. :steamed:

Carrot. Stick.

Good Cop. Bad Cop.

Loving God. Dat' nasty debbel.

If you cannot manipulate the marks with promises of a better life after this mortal existence, then scare the hell out of them.

Whatever works to keep the collecton plate full and keep the shamans from having to make an honest living.

:upeyes:

!
 

Morality is like the US Dollar. :dunno:

It has value because we all agree that it has value. :wavey:

If we did not agree that it has value, it would only be not-terribly-good toilet paper.

Morality does not have to be "backed" by anything but our mutual agreement that it works and we all agree to abide by it.

And punish those who do not abide by it. :steamed:

"Religion" was invented to provide political power and wealth to the shamans.

It is the only reason "Religion" exists.

"Religion" has nothing to do with "God".

Unless, of course, you can prove "God" actually exists? :dunno:

That is a narrow view of spirituality considering religion exists in many forms in every corner of the world.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

!
 

The fact that spirituality is so widespread is simply because we have been actively conditioned to accept it as fact when it is not fact; it is merely opinion. :upeyes:

A "widespread opinion" still does not make the opinion fact. :faint:

Always has been, is now, and forevermore shall be, opinion.

Amen. :dunno:

From two of our greatest modern philosophers, the foundation of a true morality:

Hey, hey, hey — don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go... there you are.

and

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.