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-   -   “We are absolutely fed up with dealing with this off-duty behavior,” (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1456028)

ronduke 12-04-2012 01:48

“We are absolutely fed up with dealing with this off-duty behavior,”
 
Ft. Worth PD Maj. Paul Henderson who made that statement about off duty DWI, now himself arrested for, DWI.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2012...-charges.html/

TK-421 12-04-2012 01:57

It will be interesting to see if he back pedals and tries to weasel his way out of this. Or if he stands up and accepts his punishment like a man who knows he did something wrong.

indigent 12-04-2012 07:11

I'm going with the 15 day suspension part of the "matrix"

Sharkey 12-04-2012 09:10

You know everyone from citizens to judges to firemen and cops drink and drive. That makes you a selfish stupid fool.
It is the hypocrite aspect that gets me.

He has apologized and I have no doubt he'll take his punishment. I agree with the 15 day matrix, maybe a mandatory class and a bump down in rank.

I never fail to be amazed by the people willing to throw their careers in the thrash just for a couple drinks and a ride behind the wheel.

JohnnyReb 12-04-2012 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey (Post 19698773)

I never fail to be amazed by the people willing to throw their careers in the thrash just for a couple drinks and a ride behind the wheel.

Its a real shame. Probably one of the most visible common hypocrisies.

JuneyBooney 12-04-2012 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronduke (Post 19698147)
Ft. Worth PD Maj. Paul Henderson who made that statement about off duty DWI, now himself arrested for, DWI.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2012...-charges.html/

I am amazed they arrested him. It happens to the best of them.

blueiron 12-04-2012 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey (Post 19698773)
He has apologized and I have no doubt he'll take his punishment. I agree with the 15 day matrix, maybe a mandatory class and a bump down in rank.


I don't concur with the discipline.

Henderson actively sought out these increasing levels of leadership, example, responsibility, and rank. They were never foisted upon him. It is incumbent upon himself and his supervisors to hold him to an increased level of scrutiny.

When the men and women under his command did stupid and criminal things, he rightfully advocated for imposed discipline. Now, he is the one exposed and he should be wiling to make himself an example before his command - he hasn't and an apology is less than worthless, it is the act of someone hoping to squeak out of their actions. When someone actively seeks the rewards and privileges of rank, every one selected should be actively willing to embrace the punishment for their moral failings and dumb decisions.

Henderson should fall on his sword and voluntarily demote himself to Lieutenant; take an appropriate number of days off without pay, all served within one pay period/all served consecutively; and stipulate to no promotional opportunities for two years. Publish the discipline on a department bulletin board for all employees to see.

If the rank and file saw this done, they'd have a lot more genuine respect for their bosses and their department, the community would trust their police more, and the brass would be less inclined to act as fools.

Collectively, cops are sick of managers and they have ruined the culture. Try some real leadership for once.

razdog76 12-04-2012 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigent (Post 19698459)
I'm going with the 15 day suspension part of the "matrix"

At first I was thinking this, but then I remembered that the rules adopted by MGMT, don't apply to them... Besides, if he takes 15 days off it will be a nice vacation since he is probably salaried.:upeyes:

indigent 12-04-2012 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by razdog76 (Post 19699396)
At first I was thinking this, but then I remembered that the rules adopted by MGMT, don't apply to them... Besides, if he takes 15 days off it will be a nice vacation since he is probably salaried.:upeyes:

That was my original intent, my interweb sarcasm wasn't all that convincing after 12 hrs on the road........

blueiron 12-04-2012 13:02

The matrix idea is bought off by management and labor, believing that it will make both their lives simpler, but here is how they are both wrong.

Labor believes that it will result in equitable discipline and it rarely, if ever, does. A cop who backs his/her car into a fixed object for the first time deserves a form of discipline differently than a serial IA suspect who cuts corners on investigations, is abusive, is untruthful, and managed to slip through every check in hiring and retention. The infrequent minor infraction tends to get too much discipline and the serial IA bird tends to get another chance that retains them. Labor should respect the correction for the occasional slip up and cry out to get rid of the R.O.D.s and the abusers. Unfortunately, the labor law system only allows two participants and they devolve into adversaries.

Command loves it because they don't have to think and it gives insulation to the civil action. Like a lazy judge who has mandatory sentencing, they just plug and play officers into the IA matrix and out come the results. If sued by officers or the public, they can sit in the deposition and bleat out: 'it was the matrix' over and over. They simply point at the book and effectively claim they are just following orders [just like CALEA].

The matrix needs to be a guideline to effective discipline, not an excuse for managing and not leading people. Otherwise, it is just another gimmick for the lazy and inept.

Sharkey 12-04-2012 15:28

Sorry BlueIron, I agreed on a probable outcome. I didn't mean to infer that I agreed if that was the just outcome.

"Cops are sick of managers that have ruined the culture?"

That might be the understatement of the year. That I agree with. Leadership is hard to find nowadays.

Cochese 12-04-2012 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueiron (Post 19699484)
The matrix idea is bought off by management and labor, believing that it will make both their lives simpler, but here is how they are both wrong.

Labor believes that it will result in equitable discipline and it rarely, if ever, does. A cop who backs his/her car into a fixed object for the first time deserves a form of discipline differently than a serial IA suspect who cuts corners on investigations, is abusive, is untruthful, and managed to slip through every check in hiring and retention. The infrequent minor infraction tends to get too much discipline and the serial IA bird tends to get another chance that retains them. Labor should respect the correction for the occasional slip up and cry out to get rid of the R.O.D.s and the abusers. Unfortunately, the labor law system only allows two participants and they devolve into adversaries.

Command loves it because they don't have to think and it gives insulation to the civil action. Like a lazy judge who has mandatory sentencing, they just plug and play officers into the IA matrix and out come the results. If sued by officers or the public, they can sit in the deposition and bleat out: 'it was the matrix' over and over. They simply point at the book and effectively claim they are just following orders [just like CALEA].

The matrix needs to be a guideline to effective discipline, not an excuse for managing and not leading people. Otherwise, it is just another gimmick for the lazy and inept.

Omg what a ****ing hell of a post!!!!!!

SPDSNYPR 12-04-2012 17:29

Blueiron - you're like smart or something.

Trigger Finger 12-04-2012 17:46

What did he really do? Was he drunk driving or just smelled like alcohol?
He was pulled over for an unsafe lane change or something, if I am not mistaken.
Most officers would have let another officer go unless he was driving while intoxicated or wanted to make an example out of him!!

And, yes, I think it is OK to have a beer at a dept BBQ or training day then drive the take home vehicle to your residence as long as you are not drunk driving!!

Dragoon44 12-04-2012 18:33

Quote:

“We are absolutely fed up with dealing with this off-duty behavior,”
If I worked for that dept. the quote (Modified" would mysteriously appear on his door and in the squad room.

Maj. Paul Henderson,

Quote,

"Weeb r solutely feb up wi dewing wi dis oss-duby behabor......hiccup!"

Dalton Wayne 12-04-2012 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey (Post 19698773)
You know everyone from citizens to judges to firemen and cops drink and drive. That makes you a selfish stupid fool.
It is the hypocrite aspect that gets me.

He has apologized and I have no doubt he'll take his punishment. I agree with the 15 day matrix, maybe a mandatory class and a bump down in rank.

I never fail to be amazed by the people willing to throw their careers in the thrash just for a couple drinks and a ride behind the wheel.

I don't drink

blueiron 12-04-2012 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey (Post 19699933)
Sorry BlueIron, I agreed on a probable outcome. I didn't mean to infer that I agreed if that was the just outcome.

"Cops are sick of managers that have ruined the culture?"

That might be the understatement of the year. That I agree with. Leadership is hard to find nowadays.

Brother, no problems! We are on the same page.

I am just sick and tired of mealy mouthed managers, all seemingly with acute micro-penile syndrome running our law enforcement agencies. They are little more than over-diplomaed bullies with megalomaniacal tendencies.

If you aspire to hold rank higher than others, you must hold yourself to a significantly higher standard than you hold your men and women. In doing so, you will earn the grudging respect of those you command when they fail in honest decision making or make stupid professional or personal decisions like using a bit too much force, DUI, etc.

Rank and privilege must be coupled with personal dedication, self sacrifice, and leadership from the front. If a chief is not willing to live it, then that moron should be fired and someone else put in his or her place.

blueiron 12-04-2012 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigger Finger (Post 19700381)
And, yes, I think it is OK to have a beer at a dept BBQ or training day then drive the take home vehicle to your residence as long as you are not drunk driving!!


Keep in mind that the current standard is not Driving While Intoxicated, it is Driving Under the Influence [alcohol or drugs]. The standard of bad decision for cops and the motoring public is way lower now than it was in our day. :wavey:

Kingarthurhk 12-04-2012 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey (Post 19698773)
You know everyone from citizens to judges to firemen and cops drink and drive. That makes you a selfish stupid fool.
It is the hypocrite aspect that gets me.

He has apologized and I have no doubt he'll take his punishment. I agree with the 15 day matrix, maybe a mandatory class and a bump down in rank.

I never fail to be amazed by the people willing to throw their careers in the thrash just for a couple drinks and a ride behind the wheel.

Not everyone. I never have.

Mayhem like Me 12-04-2012 19:49

I would like to see a conviction or guilty plea before I pass judgement.....I would give anyone I worked with the same courtesy..criminal case first then internal.


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