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-   -   News report showing that CCW is "ineffective" (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1462279)

jbailey8 01-04-2013 21:59

News report showing that CCW is "ineffective"
 

I wasn't impressed with this video and thought some of you may want to take a look. This was uploaded to youtube in 2010 and it was pretty biased. They take a police firearms instructor and put him in an active shooter situation as the attacker to see how average CCers will react. I like the idea as a training point, but the media spin is pathetic.

What's your thoughts?

APERS 01-04-2013 22:16

In light of all the mass shootings in gun free zones/posted areas/posted buildings.. CCW is not effective where it is not allowed..? :sad:

Atomic Punk 01-04-2013 22:19

the gloves and setup aside. most gunmen busting into a room dont know in advance who is armed, and exactly where they are.
the whole thing is just silly.

cowboy1964 01-04-2013 22:23

This is an old story. Have been many threads here.

I don't care if anyone thinks it's ineffective or not.

lilmule 01-04-2013 22:38

I think anyone is ineffective if the attacker has a firearm out and pointing at you,be silly to try to bring yours out unless you thought they would shoot anyway,then most likly both shot you twice since he had his out him once,with you having the biggest problem.
Last resort situation,distracted stand a chance,against other weapons stand a bigger chance,like ball bat at ten ft and you see it coming.
Carrying a gun does not mean you wont die,but stand a better chance of taking them with you or averting it all together.
Would it pay to stop a crime if it resulted in a gunfight,with others in the vicinity.
Assuming they are whacco yes, otherwise no.

Gray_Rider 01-04-2013 22:42

Never faced with an active shooter situatuion, but I would beg to differ with the effectiveness of CCW for my part....I would have been in serious trouble w/o one on at least one occasion and I didn't even have to draw it. Hundreds of such situations like mine go down every month and everyone goes home safe. No shots fired, just the presence......

Gray_Rider

xmanhockey7 01-05-2013 06:40

Don't even get me started about how B.S. this "news report" is. I bet I can make a video that shows the "CCW" holder to be a great to have. They'll even get the girl when the dust settles.

Bren 01-05-2013 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailey8 (Post 19821983)
What's your thoughts?

It is ridiculous and proves nothing. My evidence? Time after time after time we post news articles of CCWers winning against bad guys who have drawn guns, superior numbers, surprise, etc.

It clearly works and it always has - that's why the police carry guns.

I'm a concealed carry permit holder - I'll bet I have more training and qualification, including more certifications as a law enforcement firearms instrutor than everybody in that video combined.

steveksux 01-05-2013 07:47

I think it's interesting that these people are so clueless that they try to take on an armed intruder with simunitions rather than taking cover and fleeing.

Taking people who have never carried before, pretending they respond like the average ccwer seems rather dubious too.

Randy

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RussP 01-05-2013 07:48

First, anything put out by VPC, the Violence Policy Center, http://www.vpc.org/index.htm, should not be considered a "news report."

VPC is an anti-firearm, anti-2nd Amendment group dedicated to disarming America.

Please go to their website before giving the video credibility.

steveksux 01-05-2013 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 19822768)
First, anything put out by VPC, the Violence Policy Center, http://www.vpc.org/index.htm, should not be considered a "news report."

VPC is an anti-firearm, anti-2nd Amendment group dedicated to disarming America.

Please go to their website before giving the video credibility.

Not their video, they merely stole it from news media.
It's a logical fallacy to shoot the wrong messenger... :rofl:
Randy


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RussP 01-05-2013 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux (Post 19822776)
Not their video, they merely stole it from news media.
It's a logical fallacy to shoot the wrong messenger... :rofl:
Randy

Click on the YouTube link...does it not go to VPC Videos. They are promoting, endorsing the video. Stolen from ABC News? Yeah, and ABC News is the unbiased fair and balanced source for reporting on firearms?

As I said, rephrased, anything put out by, promoted by, endorsed by, used by VPC should not be considered accurate reporting of anything connected to firearms and their legal use.

robhic 01-05-2013 09:32

OK, so I take a few people with MINIMAL (1/2 hour?) training, put gloves on their hands and then expect them to go, cold, into a life-or-death situation? Really? And this passes as fair journalism? What a crock!!!

What about they let them drive around in a new car for an hour or so and then give them a set of tools and tell them to take the engine out. What? Nobody could do that?

Well, that is what, to me, this "demonstration" of how ineffective weapons use is by comparison. GTFO!!!:steamed:

FireForged 01-05-2013 09:42

if having a firearm in ineffective against a mad man with a gun then why do people call the police?

xmanhockey7 01-05-2013 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by robhic (Post 19823145)
OK, so I take a few people with MINIMAL (1/2 hour?) training, put gloves on their hands and then expect them to go, cold, into a life-or-death situation? Really? And this passes as fair journalism? What a crock!!!

What about they let them drive around in a new car for an hour or so and then give them a set of tools and tell them to take the engine out. What? Nobody could do that?

Well, that is what, to me, this "demonstration" of how ineffective weapons use is by comparison. GTFO!!!:steamed:

Not to mention the "active shooter" knows exactly who to shoot because they're in on it and everyone in the class goes running past the shooter to do the door. Really? I'm betting there would be far more people ducking under the desk or sitting there frozen.

WhiskeyUnicorn 01-05-2013 10:07

open carry would have prevented this...or a better holster...or if the "gunman" didn't know that guy was armed...

2-8 Marine 01-05-2013 10:08

Pure and utter soya s**t.

Gunnut 45/454 01-05-2013 10:36

OP then join the unarmed liberals and be a victim! If you can't or do not know how to employ deadly force don't carry! I for one do know how and when to employ deadly force and will every time it's required! Thats the difference! Sure there is alway the chance you will catch a round during a gun fight thats why it called a gun fight! The trick is to make the other guy bleed more!:whistling:

jbailey8 01-05-2013 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 (Post 19823400)
OP then join the unarmed liberals and be a victim! If you can't or do not know how to employ deadly force don't carry! I for one do know how and when to employ deadly force and will every time it's required! Thats the difference! Sure there is alway the chance you will catch a round during a gun fight thats why it called a gun fight! The trick is to make the other guy bleed more!:whistling:

Uh.... I said I "wasn't impressed" by the video and then went on to say that the media spin was "biased" and "pathetic." I don't understand how that makes me a liberal.

I said I liked the idea of the scenario as a training tool. I was actually aggravated that the female (the only one to get any shots off) was criticized for "not standing in the right place."

I too am confident in my ability to put rounds on target and employ deadly force. Sorry that you misunderstood why I posted the video.



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IndyGunFreak 01-05-2013 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy1964 (Post 19822060)
This is an old story. Have been many threads here.

I don't care if anyone thinks it's ineffective or not.

Pretty much. This is along the same lines as people saying "CCW reduces crime". Most states, see very little change in their crime rates after ccw passes (aside from normal variations, and crime has been on the downward trend for some time).

I don't care if crime doubles when CCW is passed.. if it's not CCW holders committing the crime, it's irrelevant.

dosei 01-05-2013 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak (Post 19824322)
Pretty much. This is along the same lines as people saying "CCW reduces crime". Most states, see very little change in their crime rates after ccw passes (aside from normal variations, and crime has been on the downward trend for some time).

I don't care if crime doubles when CCW is passed.. if it's not CCW holders committing the crime, it's irrelevant.

But one interesting thing to note...in the last 20 years, the violent crime rate has gone DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY according to FBI Stats (and one of the most significant trends in the last 20 years has been the rise of states passing shall-issue laws and the significant increases of people getting permits).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...v=Ooa98FHuaU0#!

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-1

Funny isn't it...violent crime has been FALLING STEADILY as the number of states issuing permits and number of people getting permits has steadily been on the increase.

So, who here has been hearing any of this on the news...the steady drops in violent crime...???

dougader 01-05-2013 17:03

I think it would have been great if they had brought that camera crew to my university. I would have sat there quietly until the"bad" guy came in the room and took aim at the gloved good guy. Then I would have squatted beside my desk, pointed my finger at him and yelled five times bang! bang! bang! bang! bang! You're dead!

If they asked what I thought I was doing, I would simply say: I'm the armed citizen you didn't know about. You're dead. If need be, I would have then opened my coat to show them the Glock 19 I carried every day at PSU.

Wouldn't they be surprised...

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Spiffums 01-05-2013 18:12

Like Eastwood said on Heartbreak Ridge.........handy knowing where you gonna get ambushed.

IndyGunFreak 01-06-2013 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei (Post 19824658)
Funny isn't it...violent crime has been FALLING STEADILY as the number of states issuing permits and number of people getting permits has steadily been on the increase.

So, who here has been hearing any of this on the news...the steady drops in violent crime...???

I don't dispute crime has not been falling steadily for several years... I just don't like people saying it's "because of CCW". CCW may have an effect, but I'm sure there's a myriad of other issues that do as well.

Crime rates should be totally irrelevant to CCW Unless there's a massive jump in CCW'ers committing felonies, they're two unrelated issues in my opinion.

As for the news.. :rofl:

IGF

Lior 01-06-2013 06:44

About statistics and polls:


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