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-   -   Really confused.. Can someone try to explain & let me know what to do next? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467759)

GLOCK19FTW 01-27-2013 12:39

Really confused.. Can someone try to explain & let me know what to do next?
 
I was 100% POSITIVE that I would be approved for my CWP.. But yesterday, instead of receiving my permit in the mail, I got a letter of denial that says this:

Quote:

This will acknowledge receipt of your concealed weapons permit application and to notify you of the
denial of your application.

Investigation of your application revealed the XXXXXX County Sheriff's Office does not recommend receipt of a concealed weapons permit by you. SLED gives deference to such a recommendation.

Section 23-31-215(B) of the South Carolina Code of Laws, requires that SLED issue a permit if the applicant has a favorable background check. SLED policy consistently denies applications by persons who have been arrested and/or convicted of crimes or do not receive a favorable recommendation from the Sheriff.

Pursuant to Section 23-31-215(D), you may appeal this denial to Ben L. Moore, Lieutenant, c/o Regulatory Services Unit, PO Box 21398, Columbia, South Carolina 29221-1398. Your appeal must be in writing, contain the reasons you believe you were incorrectly denied a permit. This appeal must be received within thirty days of your receipt of this letter.

It is also your responsibility to contact the
Sheriff's Office in the county you reside in to ask for a positive recommendation by the Sheriff.
This makes no sense.

I am NOT prohibited from buying or owning a firearm (obviously - I instantly pass the NICS whenever I buy a gun.)

I have no felony charges, no Domestic Violence charges, no DUI's, literally nothing that would prevent me from being approved.

After getting this letter, I decided to do some searching, and I found a site for public records in my county.

I found that I have a "pending" speeding ticket from Feb. 2011 - BUT here is the kicker:

It says I am black (I am white...)

It says I did not pay (I actually DID pay - keep reading for explanation)

There are TWO entries for that violation under the same case number.

One of them is correct, and it shows that I did pay. It has the receipt number for the payment, the clerk who took the payment, etc.

The second one (the wrong one that says I am black and that I did not pay) was entered in to their system 16 days AFTER I paid the ticket!!!

I don't understand why the Sheriff didn't notice that the one I supposedly never paid was incorrect and that I did actually pay.

Clearly this is their fault, not mine.

But now, it says I need a letter of approval from the Sheriff when I file my appeal..??

I plan on calling SLED and the Sheriff in the morning.

In the mean time, can someone shed some light on what kind of checks the Sheriff does (or is supposed to do) when considering CWP applications in SC?

Everything I'm finding says they just run a NICS check, which I obviously pass.. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to buy the guns in the first place.

I'm sure they do a local check in their system too tho - Which has wrong information right now because whoever entered it screwed up.

All it takes is a few clicks, and anybody with half a brain can see that the local record is incorrect.

So I am extremely confused here as to why I was denied.. I have never met the Sheriff, I've never done anything to him.. why would he deny me after I met all of the other requirements??

Can someone give some input?

bustedknee 01-27-2013 13:31

You lied about being black!

I wouldn't trust you either. Hahahahahahahaha :animlol:

Did you also lie about being a US citizen?

:laughabove:





I was denied one time and invited to appeal. But just like your letter they did not say why,
I wrote a letter to the Director of Public Safety in that state and told him I fully plan to appeal because there was nothing in my record to prohibit my having a permit. But since they did not specify the reason for the denial my attorney and I would need more information.

However, if they would like to take a closer look at my record we can avoid the time and cost involved in the appeal.

My permit arrived within days followed by an apology letter and the promise to change their form letter to give the reason for denial.

I suspect this is standard procedure if don't really have a legal reason for denial but they don't want you to have a permit for some reason.

Lawyer up.

OldLincoln 01-27-2013 13:37

My input is to call with a friendly positive attitude and discuss the two incidences stating there is an obvious data error and you understand that happens. You just want to get it corrected and then ask about what they can do to assist your appeal.

Someone made a clerical error and you happened to be on one side of it. Frustrating but stuff happens and be glad they didn't kick your door in looking for the other guy.

RussP 01-27-2013 13:42

Your appeal must be in writing. Get all of the needed information together. Write the letter, make a copy of everything. Now, you can mail it, or you can hand carry it. If you hand carry, take the copy and have the person receiving the original sign the copy, every page, acknowledging receipt.

Hopefully, you'll talk to the LT. If not, be patient.

GLOCK19FTW 01-27-2013 13:45

Thanks everyone who replied so far, makes me feel a little better knowing I'm not alone. lol

I really can't afford a lawyer to help with this, so I really hope it doesn't come to that.

I plan on calling & speaking with SLED & the Sheriff before I write my appeal, since I want to have as much information as possible for when I actually DO write it.

I'm not even sure that these errors are what caused the Sheriff to deny it, but that's the only thing I can think of.

Another thing I'm confused about though, is SC is a shall-issue state.

I read somewhere that if you meet all of the legal requirements, what the Sheriff says is irrelevant. They must issue the permit if you meet all requirements and you live in a shall-issue state.

Is that correct?

janice6 01-27-2013 13:47

Clerical mistakes happen. Sorry that it screwed you, but do not hesitate to follow up and correct this as soon as you can.

If this bites you in the butt now for this reason, it may come back to hurt you even more in some other way in the future.......Get it cleared up. RussP is a good resource for guidance.

GLOCK19FTW 01-27-2013 14:07

@Janice, definitely.

I'll also be calling the clerk of courts to have these errors removed from my record.

In a way, I'm kind of lucky that the Sheriff denied it - otherwise I NEVER would have needed to search the public records, which means I never would have found out about them..

I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason - If you guys/gals knew my story, you would understand why.

So I'm sure there was a reason to this.. and me finding out about these mistakes just might be that reason.

Louisville Glocker 01-27-2013 14:11

Based on my exerience, you've gotten some good advice already. Because you were denied, you are going to have to file an appeal in writing.

I'd contact the sheriff first. Can you run down there, rather than phone. Face to face is best sometimes. Show him all of your paperwork (including the likely clerical error). It'd be nice to have a positive report from him when you submit the appeal.

Above all, keep a good positive attitude and be friendly. Nobody deserves to get chewed out for a clerical error, and sounds like that is what happened. Be good to the folks. They'll work with you.

And sorry, I don't know any specific laws there. Just make sure not to miss an appeal deadline if there is one.

(I'd turn you down too if you didn't pay your tickets!!!)

GLOCK19FTW 01-27-2013 14:17

LOL yeah, I wouldn't approve someone who didn't pay their tickets either - but it is paid!

Someone just created a 2nd record for it 16 days AFTER I had already paid, and the 2nd record says I didn't (also says I'm black)

I'll definitely be polite, I mean its not the Sheriff's fault the clerk messed up. It is kinda his fault he didn't catch the error and I had to do their job for them, but whatever.. It happens.

Just sucks.. I was really excited to get that letter yesterday. Then my excitement turned to disappointment :(

I'm sure I'll get everything worked out, just a pain to have to go thru all of this.

Also, yeah I plan on calling first to see if this was even what made him not approve me in the first place. I'm just assuming this is it, since it looks like an unpaid ticket.

Once I find out what was the issue & have all of my proof & paperwork, then I'll set up a time to meet with him and hopefully get a letter of approval to include with my written appeal.

I just want to be sure that I have all the info I need first.

As for my previous question, does anybody know the answer to this one:

Quote:

Another thing I'm confused about though, is SC is a shall-issue state.

I read somewhere that if you meet all of the legal requirements, what the Sheriff says is irrelevant. They must issue the permit if you meet all requirements and you live in a shall-issue state.
Is that correct?

ADK_40GLKr 01-27-2013 14:38

I once had my auto insurance cancelled because they said I was a "SCOFFLAW" and hadn't paid a ticket. I went to see the judge, who looked back about 5 years in his records and found my receipt. He had failed to file that info with the state, so the state had no record of my paying the ticket.

I eventually was able to get my insurance coverage reinstated, because the judge was very cooperative.

I was glad I hadn't gotten nasty with him.:supergrin:

OTOH, they might have looked at your AVATAR. That would do it, in NY. :supergrin:

janice6 01-27-2013 14:48

Above all. Be courteous with public officials. They can really stonewall you if you piss them off.

Public officials do not correct clerical mistakes. Clerks do, when following procedures and forms necessary for this. First you will get agreement from the officials that you have been wronged, then you will have to allow the paperwork to be completed, a beauracracy takes time to do anything.

Don't get frustrated, it may be tough to be patient, but you have everything to gain and nothing to lose by following the rules.

Bruce M 01-27-2013 19:50

As suggested remain polite and the system will tend to work better. Based on you indicating that you have no charges, safe guess that that is the same as you have never been arrested?

Perhaps the other guy with (or using) the same name has an arrest record.

GLOCK19FTW 01-27-2013 20:04

I've been in some trouble in the past, but nothing major or anything that would disqualify me. Obviously, since I pass the NICS instantly when I go to buy a gun.

Those "charges" however, were all due to pure stupidity from a teen.

All of them petty misdemeanors. Here is my entire record:

Driving without proof of insurance & not having a valid state license (forgot to transfer from original state when I moved)

Unlawful use of Telephone (I know it sounds like I "assaulted" someone with a phone, but I was actually arrested for swearing on the telephone. Yeah, apparently people get arrested for that.. lol) I have since learned my lesson.

2 seat belt violations - both from years ago. Trust me, I have since learned my lesson.

I don't even start my car until all passengers are wearing a seat belt. Automatic belts are not enough - lap belts must be worn before I will go anywhere, just for safety reasons.

And then a couple of speeding tickets (also from years ago)

EVERYTHING has been taken care of and paid though.

I turned myself in when they "wanted" me for swearing on the phone, so as not to waste taxpayers money by them looking for me.

I pay my tickets the same exact day that I get them, just to be sure that I don't forget.

I mean this just doesn't make sense.. I am a good person.

I don't know if this was a clerical error, or if someone might have my info and is using it when they need to :(

I just know that I am not prohibited from buying or owning a firearm. I have met all of the requirements, otherwise they would have said so.

I was under the impression that a petty misdemeanor will not have any effect on things. I was also under the impression that in a "shall-issue" state like SC, as long as I met the requirements, I did not require a Sheriff's approval..?

Either way, like I said I haven't done anything wrong! LOL I don't know why the Sheriff denied it.. I've never met the guy, I've never done anything to him!

Rev.357 01-27-2013 20:19

Save your self some trouble! Get your info together, put it in writing & send it to SLED like the regulations say to! Give it 2wks, if you have not been contacted at this poiint then call & follow up.

Bruce M 01-27-2013 20:28

I am not familiar with SC requirements but my first guess is traffic violations would not be an issue. I would guess the denial may stem from one or more of the misdemeanors. I would think one of the next steps would be to determine if they can deny based on an arrest record or if the denial has to be based on convictions. It is also quite possible that one or more Sheriffs have a policy of automatically denying any arrest record and then review and decide if there is an appeal.


I just read the quoted letter which indicates SLED consistently denies applications by persons who have been arrested. Sounds to me as though the issue may be with SLED instead of the Sheriff.

GLOCK19FTW 01-27-2013 20:33

Anything I've ever done wrong, I've plead guilty to and then paid my fine that same exact day.

I've never even wasted the court's time trying to fight a seat belt or speeding ticket!

I can't see why an arrest record automatically disqualifies someone, since petty misdemeanors like this stuff have no effect.

And in order to get a petty misdemeanor there has to be an initial arrest or complaint.

So yea.. I just dont know what to think with this. LOL I AM trying to look at the bright side tho - perhaps I was denied so I could find out about these errors & address them before something major happens.

I'm sure I'll get it worked out, just kind of freaked out as to what I might find, after learning I have recently "become a black man" according to these records.. lol not being racist at all, just saying, I'm white.

That just screams possible identity theft to me.

Stlbrian 01-27-2013 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW (Post 19919402)
Anything I've ever done wrong, I've plead guilty to and then paid my fine that same exact day.

I've never even wasted the court's time trying to fight a seat belt or speeding ticket!

I can't see why an arrest record automatically disqualifies someone, since petty misdemeanors like this stuff have no effect.

And in order to get a petty misdemeanor there has to be an initial arrest or complaint.

So yea.. I just dont know what to think with this. LOL I AM trying to look at the bright side tho - perhaps I was denied so I could find out about these errors & address them before something major happens.

I'm sure I'll get it worked out, just kind of freaked out as to what I might find, after learning I have recently "become a black man" according to these records.. lol not being racist at all, just saying, I'm white.

That just screams possible identity theft to me.


I would for sure start with a polite phone call to the sheriff's office that issued the denial. They should be able to give you some more specific information about why you were denied, and what information you will need to provide them to get the decision reversed.

When I was denied, the sheriff told me I had outstanding charges in a local municipality, I of course did not. He wanted a certified copy of my arrest record from said municipality, that was devoid of said offense. PITA to try and prove I have not ever been charged in a crime. However, a full days worth of leg work, and around $20.00, and I had all the information he wanted. Still not sure why he couldn't call them and ask, but it got done. took another few days and he approved my CCW.

Polite was the key for me, that and I brought my cute as hell 3 year old daughter too... Shameless maybe, but man is she effective

Paul53 01-28-2013 14:53

Ever date the Sherriff's daughter? :whistling:

GLOCK19FTW 01-28-2013 14:57

lol nope, never dated his daughter.. never even met the guy.

BUT there is good news - after a round of phone-tag with every public office in this county, they WERE able to fix the record that said I was a black guy who didn't pay the ticket.

I have since checked the records again, and it is no longer on there.

So that shows that I am in good standing & have paid all of my tickets in the past.

Now I'm just waiting for the Sheriff's assistant to call me back. I spoke with her earlier, and she said she had just received my voicemail and that she was looking over everything, and she would call me once she figured out why it was denied.

Soooo.. just waiting for that call. lol if I don't hear from them today, I'll call again tomorrow. I don't wanna bug them, since it is possible that she hasn't seen or talked to the Sheriff yet.

igor 01-28-2013 15:19

after 40 yrs of policing the only thing tht would raise a red flag for me would be the telephone misuse that might be it good luck


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