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-   -   Why such a big price difference.. GLOCK/Sig etc.. (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468033)

AlaJack 01-28-2013 13:07

Why such a big price difference.. GLOCK/Sig etc..
 
Why is there such a big price difference between the Austrian GLOCK’s and it’s neighbors to the North the Sigs and HK’s? I don’t believe for a second Sigs and HK’s are “better” guns but I beg the question, why? On a model-to-model comparable basis, GLOCKs, Sigs, and HKs all seem relatively similar. They’re mostly made from the same materials, they’re all tough and durable, they’re all just as accurate as the other. The only noticeable difference is the method of operation – Striker vs hammer fired. Is this where the extra design costs are buried? By now though you’d think it’s an exact science. So why the disparity in prices? I could understand $100, or even $150 or so, but an average USP or new Sig is $300-400 more than a comparable GLOCK. Why?

SmithietheFox 01-28-2013 13:19

Anything HK is always expensive simply because it has "HK" on it

AlaJack 01-28-2013 13:29

That was my first thought – that it was just merely the brand which made the price so much higher. But then I thought about the automobile industry. I own a late model e46 BMW, and it sells for a premium over other autos because it is in fact (to me) a better car. It rides better, handles better, feels better, has better drivetrains etc.. Since I’ve never actually fired an HK or Sig comparable to a GLOCK, would this be the reason they’re more expensive? Because they’re just more balanced, tuned, and smooth? If so, I can understand the price delta.

sciolist 01-28-2013 13:54

I don't know if there's any consistency to the mark-up across brands, but there isn't much going on inside the Glock. It is a very spartan design, and very cheaply made.

Seems like Glock's main objective is to crank out disposable guns for the police market. Given that, they've done a spectacular job in terms of performance.

Personally, I'd rather have a $1500 Glock with lifetime durability, but I think Glock's idea of service life is more along the lines of 20-30K rounds.

For what it is, the Glock is a great product.

moonwilson 01-28-2013 14:12

I can't speak for H&K, but there is a lot more machining and work that goes into say a SIG P226 than goes into making a Glock. The closest thing SIG offers to a Glock would be the SP2022, which cost around $400. I have one, and it's great. Totally comparable to a Glock in terms of fit/ finish/ materials etc. It's actually a bit more accurate than what I see out of my Glocks. It has the traditional SIG DA/SA hammer arrangement. I have no idea why H&Ks are so expensive. Probably because they are so uber-l33t and hardcore. ;)

danysw 01-28-2013 14:17

I have both Sig and Glock (not HK) and even though Glocks are the most reliable guns in the world, finishing, quality, warranty and accuracy are in Sig's favor.

Bren 01-28-2013 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sciolist (Post 19922097)
Personally, I'd rather have a $1500 Glock with lifetime durability, but I think Glock's idea of service life is more along the lines of 20-30K rounds.

For what it is, the Glock is a great product.

Are you new to Glocks? Durability is one of the things they are best known for. I wasn't aware that there were even people who thought they didn't have "lifetime durability" or were "disposable" but I can tell you, you don't know much about Glocks or their history.

Hand Grenade 01-28-2013 14:31

Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water.

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.

moonwilson 01-28-2013 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand Grenade (Post 19922252)
Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water.

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.

:whistling: Um. Not sure what you're on about, if you're trolling here or what. SIG makes very fine guns indeed. I own 5 of them, and have never been even slightly displeased with any of them. I can't recall a single malfunction of any kind with any of my SIGs. They're extremely reliable and accurate in my experience. And not one of them has a spot of rust anywhere. I'd trust my life with any one of them. Glocks are good too, I have 3 of those and like them a lot too. I've always wanted an H&K, but haven't found the right one at the right price yet. By all accounts H&K makes superb weapons, though they do tend to be a bit bulky and expensive.

danysw 01-28-2013 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand Grenade (Post 19922252)
Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water. .

Are you sure you don't have a lemon? Are you sure you are talking about the same Sig Sauer that is used by all this agencies?

U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security (largest U.S. non-military contract)
U.S. Navy SEALs
U.S.Navy SWCC
U.S. Federal Air Marshals
U.S. Secret Service
U.S. Coast Guard
U.S. ATF
Federal Protective Service
Colombia: CNP 12,000 pistols; Army 800 precision rifles
France: over 250.000 SIG SAUER pistols in use by Police Nationale, Gendarmerie and Douanes
Chile PICH
British SAS
Hong Kong Police – new P250
Canadian Military (P226)
U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security
U.S. Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)
U.S. Army 902d Military Intelligence Group (M11)
U.S. Army Criminal Investigative Divison (CID)
USAF OSI (M11)
U.S. NAVY Aviators (M11)
8 German SEK units
Norwegian Special Forces
German Customs and Border Control
GIGN French Special Force
1/3 of all U.S. State & Local LE (Lol the other 2/3 have Glocks)

samuse 01-28-2013 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand Grenade (Post 19922252)
Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water.

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.

:shocked:


:rofl:

Leigh 01-28-2013 14:48

[QUOTE=sciolist;19922097][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Personally, I'd rather have a $1500 Glock with lifetime durability, but I think Glock's idea of service life is more along the lines of 20-30K rounds.

Uh, no. Not even close.

Glocks have fired many more rounds out of ONE handgun than many other combined.

Ever hear of Chuck Taylor who put hundreds of thousands of rounds through one?

No offense, but Google is your friend.

Hand Grenade 01-28-2013 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonwilson (Post 19922275)
:whistling: Um. Not sure what you're on about, if you're trolling here or what. SIG makes very fine guns indeed. I own 5 of them, and have never been even slightly displeased with any of them. I can't recall a single malfunction of any kind with any of my SIGs. They're extremely reliable and accurate in my experience. And not one of them has a spot of rust anywhere. I'd trust my life with any one of them. Glocks are good too, I have 3 of those and like them a lot too. I've always wanted an H&K, but haven't found the right one at the right price yet. By all accounts H&K makes superb weapons, though they do tend to be a bit bulky and expensive.

You keep shooting your overpriced and mile high bore axis Sig. Make sure your well trained to clear pistol jams. I'll keep shooting perfection out of my Glock.

Leigh 01-28-2013 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand Grenade (Post 19922252)
Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco.

That pretty much sums up your real-world knowledge right there.:upeyes:

2-8 Marine 01-28-2013 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand Grenade (Post 19922252)
Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water.

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.


Thank you for your input Gaston. :tongueout:

flw 01-28-2013 14:52

Getting back to the original post, I don't know of any real practical differences between Glock/Sig/H&K (they all make good guns) other than price and like cars- Style....

BTW- all thing made mechanical are subject to lemons now and then. Also there all designed and made by humans.

tcallre 01-28-2013 15:16

In the eighties HK stuck really close to the actual dollar/German Mark ratio. Around 1984 when the dollar was strong a HK91 went for around 550.00 while a Colt AR 15 was around 600.00. By 1988 this had changed with the Colt's staying around the 600.00-650.00 mark while the 91's were closer to 900.00 It seemed Sig Sauer would deviate and attempt to keep their German guns close to the original price what ever the dollar's strength to the DM was. I really think the main thing has been the Glock design being relatively cheap to produce and since Glock's tend to evolve very slowly there are little RD funds to recover. By the way while I think the Sig bashing is ridicules I sure hated finding rust on my grip screws every so often the five years I carried one on the job. For the premium price I always felt Sig should of put a more durable standard finish on their pistols.

Steel Head 01-28-2013 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2-8 Marine (Post 19922328)
Thank you for your input Gaston. :tongueout:

:rofl:

John Biltz 01-28-2013 15:52

Glocks are inexpensive because they cost less to make. Glock's have fewer parts and their manufacturing process is very efficient and cost effective. The Glock revolution was as much about the way they make guns as the guns themselves.

AlaJack 01-28-2013 15:58

Didn't mean to start a flame war... Oh well.

I appreciate Sig's extra processing and machining. I suppose that accounts for their being more pricey, however to me it just seems like they'd have perfected the process down to an art form by now and the start-up/D&D costs initially incurred to make such a product would have been over and done long ago. Maybe the materials themselves would be better and thus more costly? Forgive me, I know nothing about machining work other than what I've learned on wikipedia or the history channel.. Perhaps it really IS that much more expensive/time consuming to machine Sig parts, slides, etc than that of a Glock...

flw 01-28-2013 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Biltz (Post 19922556)
Glocks are inexpensive because they cost less to make. Glock's have fewer parts and their manufacturing process is very efficient and cost effective. The Glock revolution was as much about the way they make guns as the guns themselves.

Its beauty is in its simplicity. Not in its complexity. i.e. the other 2 mentioned.....

dhoomonyou 01-28-2013 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by sciolist (Post 19922097)
I don't know if there's any consistency to the mark-up across brands, but there isn't much going on inside the Glock. It is a very spartan design, and very cheaply made.

Seems like Glock's main objective is to crank out disposable guns for the police market. Given that, they've done a spectacular job in terms of performance.

Personally, I'd rather have a $1500 Glock with lifetime durability, but I think Glock's idea of service life is more along the lines of 20-30K rounds.

For what it is, the Glock is a great product.

DISPOSABLE ?
20-30k LIFE?

Respectfully i disagree

I have close to 60k rounds out of a 26.
Replaced recoil spring about every 15k, trigger spring once.

wacopolumbo 01-28-2013 16:43

I am a Sig, Glock and Beretta armorer (haven't been to the HK course yet). Also, I have carried just about every make and model of short and long gun either for personal CCW or into harms way (Afghanistan and Iraq and some other places). For long guns, I loved the Sig rifle (552) we carried on a protective detail. I am NOT an M4 fan and would carry and "acquired" AK whenever possible. Also, the HK MP5 is tough to beat.

Now, back to the handguns...

HK pistols are well engineered, wonderful pieces of equipment. The P7 was expensive to manufacture with the squeeze cocker and all the parts. I had several over the years. When the USP first came out in the mid 90s, you could get them at reasonable prices. In the late 90s when the Euro was established and immediately was worth more than the dollar, importing HKs became more expensive almost over night. If you add in that HK would rather just deal with military and LE than civilians, there was no desire to drive prices down. I lived in Germany and went to the HK headquarters to be qualified on the MP7 and was told by the HK reps that they wished they wouldn't have to deal with civilians.

Ahhhh, Sig...my duty weapon...in the 90s, you could go to a gun show and buy a NIB Glock for $400, a NIB USP for $500 and a NIB Sig for $500. Now (before craziness) you could go to a gunshow and buy a NIB Glock for $500, a NIB USP for $900 and a NIB Sig for $900. Crazy and frustrating. I know guys at Sig. They claimed the same Euro transition price hike in 2000. Then in 2005 when the Euro soared, Sig raised prices again, claiming the import cost of guns and parts was the reason. Now that Sig is making the guns completely in Exiter, they haven't lowered any prices. Not only that, they are using MIM parts now. In my opinion, the quality of Sig has gone through the floor in the last 10 years. Ever since the Kimber guy was hired to run SIGARMS (before Sig Sauer took over SIGARMS again), Sig seems to push out more crap than ever. Scorpions, Extremes, rainbow finish, diamond plate finish and the list goes on...

Somehow in all of this, Glock has kept their pricing remarkably stable. They have the manufacturing process down and keep costs low by not having 50 variations of each pistol (ala Sig). Not only are the Glock pistols less expensive and haven't inflated in price over the years like the others, but their accessories and mags are more affordable too.

Now Beretta. I am a big fan of them too. They have also kept their prices stable and their accessories aren't as bad as HK and Sig.

Gotta appreciate Glock. They aren't perfect, but no company is.

Just my .02

CynicX 01-28-2013 16:45

I feel like some people here are comparing a Glock to a top of the line SA/DA alloy/steel frame 226....

Compare to Sig SP2022 to a Glock and you'll be surprised.

Nutnfancy holds Sig's in the highest regards including the 2022 and he loves Glocks.


dhoomonyou 01-28-2013 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sciolist (Post 19922097)
I don't know if there's any consistency to the mark-up across brands, but there isn't much going on inside the Glock. It is a very spartan design, and very cheaply made.

Seems like Glock's main objective is to crank out disposable guns for the police market. Given that, they've done a spectacular job in terms of performance.

Personally, I'd rather have a $1500 Glock with lifetime durability, but I think Glock's idea of service life is more along the lines of 20-30K rounds.

For what it is, the Glock is a great product.

DISPOSABLE ?
20-30k LIFE?

Respectfully i disagree

I have close to 60k rounds out of a 26.
Replaced recoil spring about every 15k, trigger spring once.


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