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Joe32780 01-29-2013 08:28

Grip question
 
Is a Grip Force beaver tail adapter allowed in competition?

unclebob 01-29-2013 09:40

It would only be allowed in unlimited.

Joe32780 01-29-2013 09:53

Bummer! .......thanks for the response, guess I need some range time without it before Orlando.

ron59 01-29-2013 11:39

I think Glock unveiled their version of it at Shot Show... at least for Gen4s?

Joe32780 01-29-2013 11:56

Yes, they are saying they will be available sometime in the middle of the year....they should be legal, since they are made by Glock, I'm assuming.

Comrade Bork 01-29-2013 12:03

No.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by unclebob (Post 19925298)
It would only be allowed in unlimited.

No.

Aftermarket "beavertails" are allowed in the "stock" categories with Gen-3's & prior, so long as they are not wildly different from the Glock-produced beavertails available for the Gen4's.

You will not find it in the current rules. The 2013 rules are pretty much a repeat of the 2012 rules and that particular change did not get in there.

But it is true. Check with the GSSF RangeMasters at whatever rmatch you attend.

:supergrin:

Joe32780 01-29-2013 12:05

Now I'm confused....lol....I'll check in Orlando.

unclebob 01-29-2013 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe32780 (Post 19925813)
Now I'm confused....lol....I'll check in Orlando.

You are not the only one.

Joe32780 01-29-2013 12:11

I sent Mike a note, if he isn't too busy I'm sure he'll clear it up, at least for Orlando.

unclebob 01-29-2013 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade Bork (Post 19925802)
No.

Aftermarket "beavertails" are allowed in the "stock" categories with Gen-3's & prior, so long as they are not wildly different from the Glock-produced beavertails available for the Gen4's.

You will not find it in the current rules. The 2013 rules are pretty much a repeat of the 2012 rules and that particular change did not get in there.

But it is true. Check with the GSSF RangeMasters at whatever rmatch you attend.

:supergrin:

You can bet that I will, since I will be shooting 9 GSSF matches this year and ROing 2 and probably more of them.

GUNS N' HOGS 01-29-2013 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe32780 (Post 19925059)
Is a Grip Force beaver tail adapter allowed in competition?

Talked to a guy at GSSF before the Lexington, KY match last year (don't remember his name.......but was told he was director of competition) and he assured me it was allowed in Stock, Competiton, etc. Had it on my G35 Gen 4 for that Competition class, and nothing was pointed out by any of the ROs.

:wavey:

Joe32780 01-29-2013 15:35

Thanks for your input, Guns 'N Hogs.

unclebob 01-29-2013 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUNS N' HOGS (Post 19926427)
Talked to a guy at GSSF before the Lexington, KY match last year (don't remember his name.......but was told he was director of competition) and he assured me it was allowed in Stock, Competiton, etc. Had it on my G35 Gen 4 for that Competition class, and nothing was pointed out by any of the ROs.

:wavey:

Most of the people that RO GSSF matches do not shoot GSSF or have they ever read the rules, or will everything be covered in the RO briefing. But it is something I definitely find out for sure when I go to the Orlando match.

njl 01-29-2013 17:19

Latest printed rules say no. Hopefully there's not much involved in removing it, if that's necessary.

Joe32780 01-29-2013 17:50

No, just one pin.....seems like it would be allowed, since slip-on grips like Hogue are allowed, which is what prompted me to pose the question.

unclebob 01-29-2013 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe32780 (Post 19927018)
No, just one pin.....seems like it would be allowed, since slip-on grips like Hogue are allowed, which is what prompted me to pose the question.

The thing is that it changes the angle of the grip. I hope it will be allowed. It puts the angle of the grip in more in the line of the 1911. But we will see.

Joe32780 01-29-2013 18:02

It is more comfortable for me to shoot, and I don't see where it would give anyone an unfair advantage.

njl 01-29-2013 18:31

Looking at a picture of one, it looks like the main point is to avoid slide bite for those with meatier hands? Yeah...I don't see it as a real competitive advantage...and you could argue it's more of a safety feature than anything else.

Joe32780 01-29-2013 18:34

I use a pretty high grip, and it does offer a little insurance.

SARDG 01-29-2013 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe32780 (Post 19925831)
I sent Mike a note, if he isn't too busy I'm sure he'll clear it up, at least for Orlando.

Although Mike's a wonderful guy, he is the CFRPC GSSF Match Coordinator - not a Glock employee who can dictate rules. However, if he has heard the same thing, I'm sure he would tell you.

There are a lot of things that GSSF allows that are not in the rules - or that the rules seem to contradict at times.

Allowed (last I heard... but "tomorrow is another day".):
  • Plastic magwells
  • Plastic beavertails
  • Plastic unweighted grip plugs
  • Aftermarket slide cover plates
  • Decorative embossing/engraving on slide
  • Reshoots for absolutely anything including brain freezes
  • USPSA-type reloads unless specifically forbidden by local venue

There may be more that I am not remembering right now. I try to put these changes in my memory bank as they come along and spit them out when and if necessary at a match.

ETA: Plastic unweighted grip plugs added and "-type" added to USPSA.

PM720 01-29-2013 21:28

What is a USPSA reload?

Scott

SARDG 01-29-2013 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PM720 (Post 19927998)
What is a USPSA reload?

Scott

I was afraid that someone would ask that...

Would perhaps been better referred to as USPSA-type reload.

GSSF Rule 130.70 states (emphasis mine):
Make sure you keep the firearm pointed in a safe
direction (towards the targets) at all times especially
when reloading and unloading.
Failure
to do so will disqualify you from the match.

USPSA Rule 8.4.1 states (emphasis mine):
When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitor’s fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer (see Section 10.5).

I'm an IDPA SO, and admittedly don't shoot USPSA - but I always seem to recognize USPSA shooters who reload with their muzzle pointing well over the impact berm. IDPA shooters... not so much.

GSSF Rule 130.70 above says "towards the targets".
USPSA Rule 8.4.1 above says "must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer"

GSSF is now allowing the muzzle to be in "another safe direction authorized by the Range Officer" - which will not specifically be "towards the targets" and may in fact be over the impact berm.

Keeping the muzzle pointed below the berm will only be required if the specific venue/club has that as a normal club rule.

__jb 01-30-2013 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARDG (Post 19927364)
Although Mike's a wonderful guy, he is the CFRPC GSSF Match Coordinator - not a Glock employee who can dictate rules. However, if he has heard the same thing, I'm sure he would tell you.

There are a lot of things that GSSF allows that are not in the rules - or that the rules seem to contradict at times.

Allowed (last I heard... but "tomorrow is another day".):
  • Plastic magwells
  • Plastic beavertails
  • Aftermarket slide cover plates
  • Decorative embossing/engraving on slide
  • Reshoots for absolutely anything including brain freezes
  • USPSA reloads unless specifically forbidden by local venue

There may be more that I am not remembering right now. I try to put these changes in my memory bank as they come along and spit them out when and if necessary at a match.

You mentioned that grip plugs were also legal some time ago... Not sure where all these verbal rules addendums come from, but you might want to add it to your list.

SARDG 01-30-2013 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by __jb (Post 19928594)
You mentioned that grip plugs were also legal some time ago... Not sure where all these verbal rules addendums come from, but you might want to add it to your list.

Thanks John - absolutely correct; unweighted plastic grip plugs are allowed and now added above. Knew I had to be forgetting something.

These come from GSSF Rangemasters over the last couple of years. I ask a lot of questions and don't hesitate to ask for clarification or rulings when necessary. I'm not going to bust somebody for something that other ROs are letting slide - either because they miss it, or are unsure of the rules.

Although the printed rules haven't kept pace, the tendency at matches has been to allow plastic, unweighted aftermarket parts that, in the minds of GSSF RMs, provide no competitive advantage. If an RO is in doubt, they can notify the shooter and then should clearly write the alleged infraction on the scoresheet and let GSSF sort it out. A competitor could be moved to unlimited if the accessory is judged to be illegal for stock.

emtjr928 01-30-2013 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARDG (Post 19928256)
I was afraid that someone would ask that...

Would perhaps been better referred to as USPSA-type reload.

GSSF Rule 130.70 states (emphasis mine):
Make sure you keep the firearm pointed in a safe
direction (towards the targets) at all times especially
when reloading and unloading.
Failure
to do so will disqualify you from the match.

USPSA Rule 8.4.1 states (emphasis mine):
When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitorís fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer (see Section 10.5).

I'm an IDPA SO, and admittedly don't shoot USPSA - but I always seem to recognize USPSA shooters who reload with their muzzle pointing well over the impact berm. IDPA shooters... not so much.

GSSF Rule 130.70 above says "towards the targets".
USPSA Rule 8.4.1 above says "must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer"

GSSF is now allowing the muzzle to be in "another safe direction authorized by the Range Officer" - which will not specifically be "towards the targets" and may in fact be over the impact berm.

Keeping the muzzle pointed below the berm will only be required if the specific venue/club has that as a normal club rule.

Some folks will also refer to this as a "tactical" reload. Some of our USPSA and LEO shooters will reload in this manner. Also some will refer to muzzle not breaking the "180" which extends vertically and horizontally.
I too wish that the printed rules would "keep up" and be all inclusive.:yawn:


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