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-   -   G30S=Proof of Concept For Future G21S, G30SL, G37S, G38S (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1471209)

Wildpony 02-11-2013 22:46

G30S=Proof of Concept For Future G21S, G30SL, G37S, G38S
 
I picked up my G30S today and really like it. So much easier to operate than my Springfield XDS, but then again, it is a little bigger than the XDS too. But I think the 30S will be my new go to EDC once I have put it through its paces.

But, while looking at the way the 30S is put together today, it struck me that Glock's ability to use the slim slide on this pistol provides a possible proof of concept that could be the genesis of coming improvements on other models. If Glock can engineer the recoil spring assembly to allow reduced slide mass on this pistol then they should be able to use those same principles to create the following:

G21S--I have considered a G21SF for some time now but always opted against it due to bulk and weight. But if Glock could engineer a 21 that used the slim slide, then I would have less reason not to buy one and would probably get one to accompany my 30S;

G30SL--(slim long) they could make an intermediate size 45 between the 30 and 21 using the same slide as the 30S, but giving it a little longer grip so that you could maybe have one more round, use flush fit magazines, and get all your fingers on the actual frame of the gun rather than using the pinky on magazine extension. It wouldn't be able to use G30 9 round magazines to make the hight profile down for concealability, but we really don't have that option now anyway since I cant remember the last time I saw a 9 round G30 mag;

G37S--I always liked the idea Glock had in introducing the .45 G.A.P. so shooters with smaller hands, or just those preferring a smaller grip, could have a .45. But I was immediately turned off when I saw the bulbous thick slide overhanging the sides of the frame, necessitating the use of the extended slide release, making it harder to find holsters, heavier, etc. But now with Gen4 recoil spring assemblies, they could slim those G37 slides down to create the G37S which would then have the same profile and unloaded weight as the G17/22, and would be able to find holsters. I think that would finally bring the G.A.P. cartridge into true relevance for use with LEO's and Civilians who want a .45 but not the hefty G21;

G38S--Using the same principle applied in the G37S concept above, shooters with smaller hands, or just preferring a smaller grip, could have a .45 in a package identical in size to the G19/23 but with a wider variety of holsters available;


I am not saying any of this is actually going to happen, because I know there are a lot of models out there that everyone wants that Glock still hasn't brought out. All I'm saying is that the 30S proves that a slimmer slide could be adapted to other models currently in Glock's lineup to freshen them up a bit and really give them a better chance to compete.

Wishful thinking, but hey, you never know.

BroncoAZ 02-12-2013 00:43

I saw a Glock marked G30S in the case at my LGS today, I didn't put two and two together that it was a new model.

silversport 02-12-2013 04:37

I don't see GLOCK doing the proposed changes...they already had the G36 slide and so many had already done the change, it was an easy new pistol...and I think the jury is still out on if this will be all it is claimed to be...

...I know for me at least, that the G30 Gen4 was my choice last week and not the G30S...

Bill

faawrenchbndr 02-12-2013 08:03

The 30s was a fix for a non-existant problem.
The 30s does not shoot as well as the 30, recoil is more, & it
does not carry any better. Another fabulous Glock fail.

emtjr928 02-12-2013 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19978512)
The 30s was a fix for a non-existant problem.
The 30s does not shoot as well as the 30, recoil is more, & it
does not carry any better. Another fabulous Glock fail.

The 30s was made at the request of the LAPD, who ordered +20,000 pistols on one order. I don't see the fail!

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

High Altitude 02-12-2013 10:37

If glock put the slimmer slide on the GAP models, I would buy all of the GAP models available as gen4 and start reloading.

faawrenchbndr 02-12-2013 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by emtjr928 (Post 19978727)
The 30s was made at the request of the LAPD, who ordered +20,000 pistols on one order. I don't see the fail!

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

Still no advantage over a G30.
Just because the LAPD does something,it does not mean it's not a failure.
Take a look at California.. A narrower slide on a wide frame does nothing
that is a benefit to the shooter, more recoil, faster unlock time, more muzzle flip.

Faaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiilure!

Noponer 02-12-2013 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19979179)
Still no advantage over a G30.
Just because the LAPD does something,it does not mean it's not a failure.
Take a look at California.. A narrower slide on a wide frame does nothing
that is a benefit to the shooter, more recoil, faster unlock time, more muzzle flip.

Faaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiilure!

Sorry that I have to disagree, but I must.-:supergrin:. I have been shooting Glocks for 20+ years... owning almost 40 in that time. I have shot (& still shoot) in competition with Glocks exclusively. I am not a newbie.

I do not care why the 30S was developed, but it was just what I needed. It is easier to conceal, even though the frame is larger than the slide. (All Glocks have slides wider than the slide, except the G36). It is lighter... weighing slightly more than a G26! The heavier .45 rounds offset that some, but I chose to carry a total of 9 rounds with my G30S, so the total weight is not much more (if any, depending on the gr. wt. rounds used) than a fully loaded G26. Even with the fatter slide, my G30S fit perfectly in a leather slide holster I had used for a G26. I never liked the G36 frame, but never cared for the fat G30 slide... even though it shoots better.

Even though it has "more recoil, faster unlock time, more muzzle flip", I would rather have a G30S for concealed carry any day than a G26, G27, G36... or a G30. I love my G30SF, but it will not do what this gun will do.

Go ahead - buy yourself one! You don't have to give up your G30!-:supergrin:

Failure? I think not. - :wavey:

faawrenchbndr 02-12-2013 13:45

Ok,.....so you have an opinion. I do not agree with it.
Shoot-ability is a heJJ of a lot more important to me than concealment.

Oh yea,......bought my first Glock in 1993.
20+ years military
Glock Armorer certified
Owned about 15 Glocks, 9, 40 & 45acp
Stayed at Holiday Inn a few times

If you have an issue concealing a standard G30, which is .09"
wider than a G19, the weapon MANY say is the perfect carry gun,
You have more problems than you think.

If you just like the 30s better, great, just say so. But I can not buy into
the BS of the 36 slide on a 30 frame as being the greatest Glock 45.

swampfox060 02-12-2013 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversport (Post 19978195)
I don't see GLOCK doing the proposed changes...they already had the G36 slide and so many had already done the change, it was an easy new pistol...and I think the jury is still out on if this will be all it is claimed to be...

...I know for me at least, that the G30 Gen4 was my choice last week and not the G30S...

Bill

Kinda makes me curious as to why Glock didn't use the G30 Gen4 frame vs the Gen3 SF frame for the G30S. Just saying.

faawrenchbndr 02-12-2013 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampfox060 (Post 19979898)
Kinda makes me curious as to why Glock didn't use the G30 Gen4 frame vs the Gen3 SF frame for the G30S. Just saying.

Welcome to GT!

Could be to use G30 frames & 36 slides? Would it have no been a
better seller if they used a Gen 4 frame? Quite possibly!

tuica 02-12-2013 15:05

If a company makes a product that a given number of buyers (continually) purchase, it will be a success. Cheers.

Noponer 02-12-2013 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19979665)
Ok,.....so you have an opinion. I do not agree with it.
Shoot-ability is a heJJ of a lot more important to me than concealment.

Oh yea,......bought my first Glock in 1993.
20+ years military
Glock Armorer certified
Owned about 15 Glocks, 9, 40 & 45acp
Stayed at Holiday Inn a few times

If you have an issue concealing a standard G30, which is .09"
wider than a G19, the weapon MANY say is the perfect carry gun,
You have more problems than you think.

If you just like the 30s better, great, just say so. But I can not buy into
the BS of the 36 slide on a 30 frame as being the greatest Glock 45.

"Ok,.....so you have an opinion. I do not agree with it."

Same here - sorry you can't handle that.

faawrenchbndr 02-12-2013 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noponer (Post 19979961)
"Ok,.....so you have an opinion. I do not agree with it."

Same here - sorry you can't handle that.

I can handle a lot more than your opinion.
Take off the blinders, you may learn something. :tongueout:

Noponer 02-12-2013 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19980004)
I can handle a lot more than your opinion.
Take off the blinders, you may learn something. :tongueout:

Well, we agree on one thing. I noticed in another thread that you said "The G30 is the best shooting 45ACP Glock makes!". I think it is, too. I just like having a lighter "G30" in addition to my regular G30, which I shoot in competition, carry in the woods, etc.

By the way, I just put calipers on my G30SF & G30S slides. They measure 1.123" & 1.005", respectively. A difference of 0.118" instead of the 0.09" that you mentioned in that other thread... closer to 1/8" than 1/10". But as you said, not enough to be concerned.

GRT45 02-12-2013 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noponer (Post 19980079)
By the way, I just put calipers on my G30SF & G30S slides. They measure 1.123" & 1.005", respectively.

Thanks for the measurements. The G30S slide width agrees closely with what Sonnytoo reported in 2010 for the G36 slide at 1.004” 0.002”. That partially answers a question that came up when the G30S was announced about whether or not the G30S slide is the G36 slide with just a different model stamped on the side or is it some new variant.

Noponer, do you happen to have a sensitive scale that could accurately measure the weight of the slide and barrel of the G30S (without RSA) to compare it with the G30SF slide and barrel? I'm curious about the difference in mass between the two pistols for the two moving parts (slide and barrel) before the barrel unlocks. I expect the difference is about 3.5 ounces (assuming you have similar sights on the two slides). The Glock website is no help because it lists the unloaded weight of the G30S and G30SF both at 575 grams which can't be correct.

Noponer 02-12-2013 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRT45 (Post 19980411)
Thanks for the measurements. The G30S slide width agrees closely with what Sonnytoo reported in 2010 for the G36 slide at 1.004 0.002. That partially answers a question that came up when the G30S was announced about whether or not the G30S slide is the G36 slide with just a different model stamped on the side or is it some new variant.

Noponer, do you happen to have a sensitive scale that could accurately measure the weight of the slide and barrel of the G30S (without RSA) to compare it with the G30SF slide and barrel? I'm curious about the difference in mass between the two pistols for the two moving parts (slide and barrel) before the barrel unlocks. I expect the difference is about 3.5 ounces (assuming you have similar sights on the two slides). The Glock website is no help because it lists the unloaded weight of the G30S and G30SF both at 575 grams which can't be correct.

All I have is a old 5 lb. postage scale; it would probably be no more help than the Glock figures. My scale might be accurate within a 1/4 oz. or so, if that is good enough for you.

sgt rock 02-12-2013 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19979179)
Still no advantage over a G30.
Just because the LAPD does something,it does not mean it's not a failure.
Take a look at California.. A narrower slide on a wide frame does nothing
that is a benefit to the shooter, more recoil, faster unlock time, more muzzle flip.

Faaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiilure!

And its a failure just because YOU say so ? :rofl:

Your ego is as big as your post count kid !!!

GRT45 02-12-2013 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noponer (Post 19980669)
All I have is a old 5 lb. postage scale; it would probably be no more help than the Glock figures. My scale might be accurate within a 1/4 oz. or so, if that is good enough for you.

OK, thanks for offering, but don't bother with it. I will have my hands on a G30S this week at a LGS and can get some data using a sensitive scale they keep in the shop. No problem.

People refer to the "lighter slide" of the G30S generally, but few can relate to that in a meaningful way. It will be helpful to quantify the mass of the slide and barrel of the two pistols and, with some very rough calculations, be able to better communicate the different slide velocity and recoil energy that can be expected.

Noponer 02-12-2013 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRT45 (Post 19980819)
OK, thanks for offering, but don't bother with it. I will have my hands on a G30S this week at a LGS and can get some data using a sensitive scale they keep in the shop. No problem.

People refer to the "lighter slide" of the G30S generally, but few can relate to that in a meaningful way. It will be helpful to quantify the mass of the slide and barrel of the two pistols and, with some very rough calculations, be able to better communicate the different slide velocity and recoil energy that can be expected.

As you said , Glock shows the same weight online for both guns (20.28 oz.), but the Glock Annual gives 23.80 oz. for the 30SF... so:

23.80 oz. minus 20.28 oz. = 3.52 oz. difference. Both guns use the same RSA, so no difference there.

By the way, a G17 slide measured the same width as the G30S slide... 1.005"+/-. The gun widths given by Glock are for the frames, not the slides (although the online drawings have arrows pointing to slide width). A lot of the Glock data is erroneous.:dunno:


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