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-   -   Windham SRC any good? Worth $1143 NIB? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1471707)

glock2740 02-14-2013 08:10

Windham SRC any good? Worth $1143 NIB?
 
Never held or shot one. I know they are new, which isn't a great thing in my book. Don't know much about them. Anyone own/shot one? Impressions? Thanks.

ditto1958 02-14-2013 08:23

When Bushmaster moved away from Windham, Maine, the original owner of Bushmaster started a new company. He hired most of the old BM people, who have years of experience building AR's.

From what I can tell, the consensus is that the WW rifles are better than Bushmaster ever were.

If you can get one for less than $1200 these days I would jump on it. They are well worth it.

Mayhem like Me 02-14-2013 09:49

I would stay away till a true track record can be established.

I have worked on a bunch of older Bushmaster agency FA guns that had BCG problems, they worked initially then what I later found out is they used slightly undersized allen head fasteners to hold on the gas key.
I found it out by accident when I purchased a quantity of new gas keys and screws to go through them all, the head of the older fasteners was noticibly smaller and metric.

With the correct fasteners, new gas keys and to spec installation procedures all those weapons are now running great.

If they were willing to cheap out a few cents on the correct fasteners what else would that original managment do?

They may end up being great.. time and track record will tell.

KalashniKEV 02-14-2013 13:50

Once the market stabilizes you will be able to buy literally *ten times the gun* for that price.

I'd hold off.

ditto1958 02-14-2013 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me (Post 19987047)
I would stay away till a true track record can be established.

I have worked on a bunch of older Bushmaster agency FA guns that had BCG problems, they worked initially then what I later found out is they used slightly undersized allen head fasteners to hold on the gas key.
I found it out by accident when I purchased a quantity of new gas keys and screws to go through them all, the head of the older fasteners was noticibly smaller and metric.

With the correct fasteners, new gas keys and to spec installation procedures all those weapons are now running great.

If they were willing to cheap out a few cents on the correct fasteners what else would that original managment do?

They may end up being great.. time and track record will tell.

I don't own a Windham rifle, nor am I in any way associated with the company. In all honesty, if a similar Colt rifle were available to me for a reasonable cost, I think I would buy it over the WW, if for no other reason than I would feel secure that the Colt would hold its value.

That being said, everything I have read and seen about WW's rifle has been extremely positive. At the same time, Bushmaster reputation has been slipping since they moved their manufacturing. All of the Windham rifles I have seen in stores look to be very, very well made.

USMCsilver 02-14-2013 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 19987672)
Once the market stabilizes you will be able to buy literally *ten times the gun* for that price.

I'd hold off.

A complete AR for $114.30? Really? Can I get in line to get one of yours? :dunno:

$749 would be a fair retail for their product, IMHO, from what I've read. However, I don't need one, so my input is moot.

Jason D 02-14-2013 17:05

I have several old Bushmasters built by the same people.
If these WW are anywhere close to the same I would not hesitate to get one.

Whazoo 02-14-2013 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason D (Post 19988290)
I have several old Bushmasters built by the same people.
If these WW are anywhere close to the same I would not hesitate to get one.

Same experience, have owned two Bushy rifles and never had any problems with them, one was shot extensively and functions just fine.

Matthew Courtney 02-14-2013 19:43

If you have to buy now, and that model has the features you seek, the price is a fair one. As mentioned, the likelihood of prices falling to an equilibrium below current levels is a chance anyone buying now must take. Do you need a defense rifle right now?

Of course, there is always a chance that increased societal tensions and/or increased government interference in the free market could cause a price rise. For many, the risk of governmental interference in the marketplace and the recreational value of owning now justifies the expense/risk of buying now. Is it to be a tool, toy, investment, or a combination?

Ruggles 02-14-2013 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 19987672)
Once the market stabilizes you will be able to buy literally *ten times the gun* for that price.

I'd hold off.

Oh I just gotta know.....

What AR is 10x the gun the WW is? And please let me know how it is 10x the gun :wavey:

If you fail to respond I will understand why.......:rofl:

alexanderg23 02-14-2013 19:54

You did fine,hope your WIFE enjoys it.....:whistling:

BenjiEDF 02-14-2013 23:51

Yes Windham is one of the better makes of AR's nowadays. I paid $899 for mine but in todays climate $1143 is tolerable. The Windham's are better than the old Bushmasters.
They are not a new company, most of their staff are former Bushmaster employees in Maine with decades of experience and they have a point to prove.

WinterWizard 02-15-2013 00:44

Jump all over it in this climate. I own the same rifle. Shoots great. Not a single problem with it in about 1500 rounds since last July. I don't regret my decision to get an SRC, at all.

Ignore anyone who says they are "old Bushmasters." WW is a new company, using that opportunity to make a new, improved product.

By the by, how long does something have to be out before it is proven? They have been in business for about 2 years and probably sold many thousands of rifles with no major gripes, recalls, problems, etc...

R2D2 02-15-2013 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by glock2740 (Post 19986784)
Never held or shot one. I know they are new, which isn't a great thing in my book. Don't know much about them. Anyone own/shot one? Impressions? Thanks.

M.S.R.P. - $1040.00 according to Windham web site.

I own their HBC model and love it - tight, accurate. Mine is about a pound heavier than the model you listed (SRC), most of that is due to different barrel. I added their recoil pad, different sling (padded) and optics.

I have put about 500 rounds through it since Sept with no issues at all.

I would not hesitate to buy another or recommend them.

Also they come with a lifetime warranty which is also transferable.

mgs 02-15-2013 05:34

I handled one and was not overly impressed. Nothing jumped out at me as quality. Just another AR. Fit & finish were so so. I'll keep the six I already have.

Ruggles 02-15-2013 08:03

I have handled a half dozen or do examples of WW and they have all been seemed well built to me.

M&P15T 02-15-2013 08:12

I do like the fact that they have 4150 CL 1/9" barrels. Those are not common on factory built rifles, and work well with the typical 55gr. FMJ ammo most people shoot.

KalashniKEV 02-15-2013 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruggles (Post 19988944)
Oh I just gotta know.....

What AR is 10x the gun the WW is? And please let me know how it is 10x the gun :wavey:

If you fail to respond I will understand why.......:rofl:

Any serious AR (Colt, Noveske, DD, BCM, LMT) is better than one of these commercial spec junkers for the following reasons:

1) The gas port will be properly sized at .063.

(pull the gas block on that rifle- a 1/16 drill bit will be a hot dog down a hallway in that junker)

2) BCG and FCG parts will be of known quality and not lowest bidder, or built by a rebranded workforce known for spotty QC. (WW is supposedly HPT/MPI testing their bolts now, though)

3) You will get a quality barrel will have the proper twist rate allowing you to fire the widest variety of ammunition accurately.

4) The fit and finish will be superior... if that's your thing.

M&P15T 02-15-2013 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 19990338)
Any serious AR (Colt, Noveske, DD, BCM, LMT) is better than one of these commercial spec junkers for the following reasons:

1) The gas port will be properly sized at .063.

(pull the gas block on that rifle- a 1/16 drill bit will be a hot dog down a hallway in that junker)

2) BCG and FCG parts will be of known quality and not lowest bidder, or built by a rebranded workforce known for spotty QC. (WW is supposedly HPT/MPI testing their bolts now, though)

3) You will get a quality barrel will have the proper twist rate allowing you to fire the widest variety of ammunition accurately.

4) The fit and finish will be superior... if that's your thing.

How do you know the gas port would be the wrong size?

msuben 02-15-2013 08:22

I have a Windham SRC and it has been flawless. Eats all ammo and no problems. Also very accurate. Windham will also gunsmith new parts with free labor as long as you buy the parts from them. They did a trigger job for me at no cost. Also added a free float tube that they installed at no charge. Free shipping back and forth too. They stand behind their products and have awesome customer service. I say go for it!

KalashniKEV 02-15-2013 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T (Post 19990370)
How do you know the gas port would be the wrong size?

People who buy econo grade rifles usually shoot crap ammunition.

If you pull the block and measure most commercial grade rifles, they are usually .078 or even more.

That being said, you had the golden opportunity to call me out and prove me wrong here... I googled it and apparently their port sizes are:

Quote:

Here are our gas port sizes:

14.5"末末末末末末-.067"
16"末末末末末末末-.063"
20"末末末末末末末-.093"

When we start doing 11.5" they will be .076".
At the same time I withdraw that criticism though, I must add a few more:

1) It was my understanding in the previous post that WW was touting their HPT/MPI bolts, but now I have found that they are likely "batch" tested, which is UNSAT.

2) Some rifles still ship with commercial/ semi carriers and improper, commercial diameter receiver extensions.

3) Also, you have to stake your own Castle Nut, and as far as the BCG staking... is it sound?


I'm just not sure if I would willingly get ripped off by these folks when a new Colt LE6920 was going for $1050 a few months ago. If they were offering it at ~$700 then I'd say yeah, maybe you might consider one... then save up an extra $300 and get something that's not going to quit on you.

There are far better options out there in that price range. Don't fall victim to the panic and just buy whatever's on the shelf.

Ruggles 02-15-2013 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 19990338)
Any serious AR (Colt, Noveske, DD, BCM, LMT) is better than one of these commercial spec junkers for the following reasons:

1) The gas port will be properly sized at .063.

(pull the gas block on that rifle- a 1/16 drill bit will be a hot dog down a hallway in that junker)

2) BCG and FCG parts will be of known quality and not lowest bidder, or built by a rebranded workforce known for spotty QC. (WW is supposedly HPT/MPI testing their bolts now, though)

3) You will get a quality barrel will have the proper twist rate allowing you to fire the widest variety of ammunition accurately.

4) The fit and finish will be superior... if that's your thing.

Alot of assumptions on your part. But regardless of the a couple of things stick out. One is half the
Rifles you named can not be purchased for $1100 like you implied. And second you have yet to post anything showing how any of these ARs are 10x the quality if the WW. So I can only guess maybe you over stated things in you original post.

KalashniKEV 02-15-2013 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruggles (Post 19991023)
Alot of assumptions on your part. But regardless of the a couple of things stick out. One is half the
Rifles you named can not be purchased for $1100 like you implied. And second you have yet to post anything showing how any of these ARs are 10x the quality if the WW. So I can only guess maybe you over stated things in you original post.

Prior to googling, one assumption I made, regarding the port size turned out wrong. They are properly sizing their ports.

Other assumptions I made- that the castle nut would be properly staked, the carrier and receiver extension would be of the proper spec, and that the bolts were tested and proven turned out to be wrong... and quality is in fact lower than I had imagined.

So, if I made any assumptions, they benefited WW. The rifles are worse than I thought.

Regarding the cost, I clearly stated that once the market stabilizes you will be able to buy a quality rifle for less money. One that is, literally, TEN TIMES THE RIFLE.

Obviously you can turn out junkers by the barrel full if you aren't focused on doing things right. If you have to have it now and you're willing to pay more and get less, then by all means, grab what's on the shelf. That's the way markets operate.

Quality takes time.

zhix 02-15-2013 14:30

My 2006 Bushmaster has worked fine though it wouldn't be my go-to rifle. My understanding is the old BMI and current WW make a good barrel, and I know at least some of their models are 1/7. However, at regular non-panic pricing I would rather pay more than $800-850 and get something that has a mil spec receiver extension with a staked castle nut, etc.

Ruggles 02-15-2013 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 19991429)
Prior to googling, one assumption I made, regarding the port size turned out wrong. They are properly sizing their ports.

Other assumptions I made- that the castle nut would be properly staked, the carrier and receiver extension would be of the proper spec, and that the bolts were tested and proven turned out to be wrong... and quality is in fact lower than I had imagined.

So, if I made any assumptions, they benefited WW. The rifles are worse than I thought.

Regarding the cost, I clearly stated that once the market stabilizes you will be able to buy a quality rifle for less money. One that is, literally, TEN TIMES THE RIFLE.

Obviously you can turn out junkers by the barrel full if you aren't focused on doing things right. If you have to have it now and you're willing to pay more and get less, then by all means, grab what's on the shelf. That's the way markets operate.

Quality takes time.


I must have missed some of the ARs you referenced selling for $1100 before this mess started. Seems to me they were selling for 50% to 60% more than that before this mess.

No doubt some of those ARs are of higher quality overall than WW but 10x better is not a realistic estimation.


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