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-   -   .40 ammo for wilderness defense (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1486569)

Ryan WA 05-11-2013 12:15

.40 ammo for wilderness defense
 
With summer coming up I'm looking forward to hiking and camping, which I do around the Eastern Washington Northern Idaho area.

First summer with my gun and WA permit, which is also good in Idaho. I don't think my 165grain speer gold dots are the best option to protect against any wildlife that i may encounter that would try to attack me, possibly even a bear.

I was looking at options for ammo suitable for my needs that I can shoot from my Glock 27, its my only gun, so far. And I don't have the money to get another gun in a different caliber (at least I don't carry 9mm).

I was looking at http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...r7a1cjah5hria2

200 grains and advertised muzzle velocity from a Glock 27 is 1009fps. Would this be a good choice? How would the recoil feel compared to say 165grain ammo?

SCmasterblaster 05-11-2013 12:21

I'd stick to the 180gr loading for SD in the woods.

Ryan WA 05-11-2013 12:25

any specific round you would recommend. Its my understanding FMJ works best for wilderness protection is that accurate? Would just about any 180grain FMJ round be enough to stop a bear?

SCmasterblaster 05-11-2013 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan WA (Post 20283585)
any specific round you would recommend. Its my understanding FMJ works best for wilderness protection is that accurate? Would just about any 180grain FMJ round be enough to stop a bear?

I wonder if there is a 180gr FMJ +p loading?

Yes, there is:

http://modernguns.com/buffalo-bore-a...80gr-fmj-fn-20

man.cave 05-11-2013 13:39

it is not likely you will stop a bear with a 40 anything, may just pi$$ him off. Most bears that I have encountered run the other way, but again, black bears are all I see. I do carry a 27, I just don't have faith in it concerning a bear. now for just about everything else, it should do its job. Mine has taken care of a few wild dogs.

Ryan WA 05-11-2013 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster (Post 20283594)
I wonder if there is a 180gr FMJ +p loading?

Yes, there is:

http://modernguns.com/buffalo-bore-a...80gr-fmj-fn-20

Idk how I would feel about using that. The Buffalo Bore website says Glock 40 cals don't have enough barrel support for the +p load. But then I read elsewhere, that has been improved over the years, and my 27 is a Gen 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by man.cave (Post 20283740)
it is not likely you will stop a bear with a 40 anything, may just pi$$ him off. Most bears that I have encountered run the other way, but again, black bears are all I see. I do carry a 27, I just don't have faith in it concerning a bear. now for just about everything else, it should do its job. Mine has taken care of a few wild dogs.

Fortunately never ran into a bear, and hope that i never do, but if I do and it does try to attack me, I want to know I have the ammo that will give me the best chance. Idk that any handgun can penetrate the bears body to its internal organs but a head shot *might* work.

M 7 05-11-2013 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan WA (Post 20283577)
With summer coming up I'm looking forward to hiking and camping, which I do around the Eastern Washington Northern Idaho area.

First summer with my gun and WA permit, which is also good in Idaho. I don't think my 165grain speer gold dots are the best option to protect against any wildlife that i may encounter that would try to attack me, possibly even a bear.

I was looking at options for ammo suitable for my needs that I can shoot from my Glock 27, its my only gun, so far. And I don't have the money to get another gun in a different caliber (at least I don't carry 9mm).

I was looking at http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...r7a1cjah5hria2

200 grains and advertised muzzle velocity from a Glock 27 is 1009fps. Would this be a good choice? How would the recoil feel compared to say 165grain ammo?

If the .40 is all that you have, the best you can do is go with the heaviest, fastest FMJFN that you can find. The 200 gr. HCFN from Buffalo Bore looks to be about your best bet. Get some bear-spray too- that stuff is fairly effective and gives you another option.

countrygun 05-11-2013 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan WA (Post 20283832)
Idk how I would feel about using that. The Buffalo Bore website says Glock 40 cals don't have enough barrel support for the +p load. But then I read elsewhere, that has been improved over the years, and my 27 is a Gen 4.



Fortunately never ran into a bear, and hope that i never do, but if I do and it does try to attack me, I want to know I have the ammo that will give me the best chance. Idk that any handgun can penetrate the bears body to its internal organs but a head shot *might* work.

Many handguns can reach a bears interior. In a frontal shot you also have the potential of damaging the shoulder joints as well as a head shot on that blur coming at you.

If a .40 is what you have load it with the 180 fmj it shoots best

SJ 40 05-11-2013 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster (Post 20283594)
I wonder if there is a 180gr FMJ +p loading?

Yes, there is:

http://modernguns.com/buffalo-bore-a...80gr-fmj-fn-20

Considering SAMMI has no specs for + P in 40 S&W,you may be purchasing Blue Sky.
I would also have a difficult time taking a manufacture seriously,that produces something for a use such as wild life defense with no SAMMI specs for that round. SJ 40

vulcan71 05-11-2013 19:11

A 40 S&W will not be the ideal caliber choice against bears but it is better then nothing. If you do encounter a bear consider your options and if you need to use the firearm shot placement is key and you will most likely need many shots so expect to empty your clip. The type of bullet needed is a deep penetrating bullet for a bear and use the most powerful cartridge that can be safely fired in you pistol but you need a fully supported chamber for the powerful cartridges (+P). Contact Tim Sundles the owner of Buffalo Bore Ammunition regarding ammunition questions and even advice as he located in Montana and has many years of experience with bears. There is an article regarding bears on the website. Additional equipment I would bring is a really bright flash light that can blind and bear spray that can fog an area. The G27 has a barrel length of 3.42 inches so you will loose a lot of power from the 40 S&W and the standard capacity is 9 with a max of 17 with optional magazines.

Bilrus61 05-11-2013 19:49

Get the 200 gr hardcast
 
The HP ammo might not give you the max penetration you need for what your wanting. I think the hardcast also will give a better straightline wound than the FMJ ammo. I've shot the 200 Hardcast and it was impressive out of my Glock 24. Glock says lead is a no no in their barrels but unless you shoot LOTS of it without cleaning I don't think it is a issue. My Glock 24 just got a shiny new KKM barrel in .40. Accuracy with the Doubletap load is excellent. One thing you could do, would be to get yourself a longer barrel that would fit your 27. Gives you more oomph and looks cool too.:supergrin:

That 200 gr. packs some recoil but if you being attacked by a bear it won't be noticeable I'm sure.

I shoot the 150 gr. Nosler from DT out of my G 24 and comes out at a smoking hot 1400 FPS for a whopping 650 foot pounds of energy in my G24.

brokenprism 05-11-2013 20:00

I do a lot of hiking and back country exploring but the threat of animals has never really concerned me. Pot growers and the isolation of off-road destinations make humans even more dangerous than they would be anywhere else. No one will call a cop if they hear gunfire and there aren't any witnesses. I know you're looking for advice about wildlife, so I'd say give them plenty of warning you're out there -- they don't want to deal with you. Make noise. Whistle, smell 'human' -- put cologne on, the wind will do the rest. Carry an air horn. Maybe a road flare -- fire and smoke might be your friends. Stay out of box canyons or anywhere you might inadvertently corner an animal. Approach water where there's lots of visibility up- and downstream. Travel populated trails (I know, against the goal of 'getting away from it all' but you really just need to get away from some, not all. : ) If you have to shoot a bear and you have ooportunity to aim, the face seems pretty vulnerable. Eyes, nose, muzzle. Seems a shame to contemplate. I'd feel better about dealing with a 'rational' animal in a defensive situation.

Shinesintx 05-11-2013 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilrus61 (Post 20284549)
The HP ammo might not give you the max penetration you need for what your wanting. I think the hardcast also will give a better straightline wound than the FMJ ammo. I've shot the 200 Hardcast and it was impressive out of my Glock 24. Glock says lead is a no no in their barrels but unless you shoot LOTS of it without cleaning I don't think it is a issue. My Glock 24 just got a shiny new KKM barrel in .40. Accuracy with the Doubletap load is excellent. One thing you could do, would be to get yourself a longer barrel that would fit your 27. Gives you more oomph and looks cool too.:supergrin:

That 200 gr. packs some recoil but if you being attacked by a bear it won't be noticeable I'm sure.

I shoot the 150 gr. Nosler from DT out of my G 24 and comes out at a smoking hot 1400 FPS for a whopping 650 foot pounds of energy in my G24.

The G22 and G35 barrel won't fit, but he could go with a G23 barrel. Granted, someone other than Lone Wolf may make a longer barrel...I dunno, just trying to add to an excellent idea.

9mm +p+ 05-11-2013 23:07

The most dangerous animal in the woods walks on 2 legs, period. Load accordingly and use common sense and animlas will not bother you.

AK_Stick 05-12-2013 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by man.cave (Post 20283740)
it is not likely you will stop a bear with a 40 anything, may just pi$$ him off. Most bears that I have encountered run the other way, but again, black bears are all I see. I do carry a 27, I just don't have faith in it concerning a bear. now for just about everything else, it should do its job. Mine has taken care of a few wild dogs.



Friend of mine ended up with one of his in the house late at night. He carried a Glock 27. Worked perfectly well for him.

http://www.bear-hunting.com/news.cfm...NewsFlashID=76

Teecher45 05-12-2013 01:50

Load the 27 as usual.
Buy bear spray.

Adamz04 05-12-2013 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teecher45 (Post 20285103)
Load the 27 as usual.
Buy bear spray.

I agree here.
I carry bear spray as a first option when I'm hiking and a sidearm as a backup option. From what I've read the bear spray is much more effective on black bears than pistols. It's only around 30$.

barth 05-12-2013 08:23

Use hunting ammo when dealing with wild animals
 
Wild Animals are hard targets.
Penetration is king.
IMHO - Forget Hollow Points.
Always use hard cast hunting loads.
Examples:
40 S&W 200gr. WFNGC 50rds $45.96
Deep Penetrating and hard-hitting! This load offer both for woods and hunting applications.
990fps 435 ft/lbs from a 3.5"bbl.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=210
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...s/IMG_3863.JPG
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=347
40 S&W OUTDOORSMAN Standard Pressure, Low Flash Ammo - 200 gr. Hard Cast Flat Nose (1,000 fps) - 20 Round Box
Due to customer requests,
here is our new “Outdoorsman” 200gr.
hard cast flat nosed 40 S&W standard pressure load.
We’ve designed this deep penetrating load for use
against wild animals where large bones such as a black bears
shoulders or skull may need to be penetrated
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...lo-Bore-40.jpg

FLIPPER 348 05-12-2013 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan WA (Post 20283832)
Fortunately never ran into a bear, and hope that i never do, but if I do and it does try to attack me, I want to know I have the ammo that will give me the best chance.

I've run into several bears in that area & others and it's really no big deal. Just be 'bear aware' in your hiking and camping activities. BTW- a can (or 2a) of bear spray will be more effective than anything from your pistol.

Ryan WA 05-12-2013 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 (Post 20285581)
I've run into several bears in that area & others and it's really no big deal. Just be 'bear aware' in your hiking and camping activities. BTW- a can (or 2a) of bear spray will be more effective than anything from your pistol.

I've never had problems is past years fortunately because I was unarmed then. I just want to make sure for the future if it become necessary I have the round that will do the job.


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