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-   -   1969 870 Wingmaster vs New 870P (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1486748)

RutgersGrad 05-12-2013 19:05

1969 870 Wingmaster vs New 870P
 
I've been seriously considering getting a Remington 870P. Synthetic stock, 7 round capacity, etc. But my Dad gave me his old 44 year old Wingmaster 870. Has a 28 and 20 inch barrel and in excellent condition.. As much as I would love a nice 870P right now, if I could find a reason to save my money and just use the Wingmaster... It'll just be for target practice and maybe HD. Might this old rifle be good enough of a reason to save me some money on buying a new shotgun?

K.Kiser 05-12-2013 19:06

A new 870 will be a downgrade...

vafish 05-12-2013 19:07

I'd rather have the 44 year old Wingmaster with the 20" barrel than a brand new 870P.

Jeremy_K 05-12-2013 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.Kiser (Post 20286894)
A new 870 will be a downgrade...

Absolutely! I'd love to have my Dad's 870 Wingmaster (50's era). Compared to my 870 Express and any other 870 I've handled in the store, the old one wins hands down. Plus it looks cooler:cool:

RutgersGrad 05-12-2013 19:22

Even an 870 Police would be a downgrade? Could you give me an example? Were they just made better back then?

mr00jimbo 05-12-2013 19:35

New 870 Police Magnums are made very well. Also, they can shoot 3" slugs if you want to do that. Old Wingmasters were also made well.

paulbow 05-12-2013 19:39

The newer 870s have more non metal parts. Other than that, an older wingmaster is basically a police model configured for hunting.


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cyphertext 05-12-2013 20:47

Save yourself some money, buy a short barrel for your Dad's Wingmaster and be happy. The old Wingmaster is well built and there is no need to buy a new one, unless you just want two.

Just noticed that you already have a 20" barrel to go with it, so you are set.

RutgersGrad 05-12-2013 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext (Post 20287179)
Save yourself some money, buy a short barrel for your Dad's Wingmaster and be happy. The old Wingmaster is well built and there is no need to buy a new one, unless you just want two.

Just noticed that you already have a 20" barrel to go with it, so you are set.

Thanks. While it's tempting to buy an 870P anyway for the hell of it, sounds like I can spend that money better elsewhere. Could I get an 18 inch barrel for that Wingmaster? Not that it would be that much shorter than the 20 inch I have...

MrMurphy 05-12-2013 21:14

The 870P is made on a different assembly line than the Express guns. Basically it's the 'original' 870 or as close as you'll find, more metal parts and more QC taken.

The old school Wingmaster will certainly 'do' but having a new one means you're less worried about jacking it up in use.

r3dot 05-12-2013 21:27

I can't believe you'd consider a newer 870 over a classic wingmaster.


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RutgersGrad 05-12-2013 21:35

And this is coming from a guy who normally just collects WW2 rifles so go figure lol

MrMurphy 05-13-2013 00:26

Nothing saying you can't have both.

I know if I had ended up using my dad's shotgun in a defensive shooting and it disappeared into evidence for 10 years and came back a rusted mess (it's happened.....) I'd be pretty ticked.

An 870P bought for the purpose? I'd still be annoyed, but it wouldn't be my dad's gun.

colin1230 05-13-2013 01:31

Did you mention to your father that you wanted an 870 so he gave you his? If so, don't buy another. You'll piss him off!

RutgersGrad 05-13-2013 08:02

Thanks for all the info. Guess I didn't realize how good and old Wing master is :) I might still get an 870P at some point for the hell of it, but after all I read it sounds like my Dad's Wing master will be just fine. The one thing I liked about the 870P was the extended shell capacity though. Would there be anything wrong with getting a shell extender for the Wing master? I don't think my Dad would mind... I think ha

cyphertext 05-13-2013 08:16

Yes, you can get an 18" barrel and a magazine extension for the Wingmaster...If your dad doesn't mind. :cool:

RutgersGrad 05-13-2013 09:06

Thanks. Would it be difficult to add a mag extender on that shotgun? I was reading up on it and some guns have these "dimples" that make it harder??

Syclone0538 05-13-2013 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by RutgersGrad (Post 20288080)
Thanks. Would it be difficult to add a mag extender on that shotgun? I was reading up on it and some guns have these "dimples" that make it harder??

I don't know about a gun that old, as there have been at least 2 types of mag spring retainer. If this is what you see under that mag cap, push it in with your finger and turn 1/4 turn and let it come out. The dimples people talk about are what hold that retainer in,you can't miss them. The spring will come out also so keep that in mind.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.47285...92694&pid=15.1

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.50583...82472&pid=15.1

cyphertext 05-13-2013 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RutgersGrad (Post 20288080)
Thanks. Would it be difficult to add a mag extender on that shotgun? I was reading up on it and some guns have these "dimples" that make it harder??

The Wingmasters don't have the dimples.

Roneye 05-14-2013 22:37

The older Wing Master doesn't have the flex tab carrier

Southpaw69 05-15-2013 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.Kiser (Post 20286894)
A new 870 will be a downgrade...

This was my thought as well. I'd take the '69 and keep it original and then get a new one if need be. That's just my opinion.

aippi 05-15-2013 16:58

You never stated what you are going to use the weapon for and rather strange all these knowledable people failed to ask before giving their educated comments.

If you intend to use it for defense then you have a weapon that is most likely pre- flex tab and I don't recomend it for a defense weapon unless you upgrade it. If it does not have the flex tab conversion this requires three different parts which are 1. New breech bolt 2. New slide 3. New carrier. The Parts run $141. Or you can try to get the Flex Tab Convesion kit from Brownells for $100.00. Good Luck with that. If it has the flex tab conversion already you are as good to go with it as any 870 in a fight.

If it is just for hunting the you are fine.

BicycleDay43 05-15-2013 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by RutgersGrad (Post 20287194)
Thanks. While it's tempting to buy an 870P anyway for the hell of it, sounds like I can spend that money better elsewhere. Could I get an 18 inch barrel for that Wingmaster? Not that it would be that much shorter than the 20 inch I have...

Buckshot. Get lots and lots of buckshot and slugs with your newfound savings. :)

Sent from the bluegrass state using my LG. Have a GLOCKtastic day!

cyphertext 05-15-2013 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by aippi (Post 20294788)
You never stated what you are going to use the weapon for and rather strange all these knowledable people failed to ask before giving their educated comments.

If you intend to use it for defense then you have a weapon that is most likely pre- flex tab and I don't recomend it for a defense weapon unless you upgrade it. If it does not have the flex tab conversion this requires three different parts which are 1. New breech bolt 2. New slide 3. New carrier. The Parts run $141. Or you can try to get the Flex Tab Convesion kit from Brownells for $100.00. Good Luck with that. If it has the flex tab conversion already you are as good to go with it as any 870 in a fight.

If it is just for hunting the you are fine.

He stated "target practice and maybe HD" in the first post.

JD, I typically would not disagree with you, but I do on this one. I have never experienced the jam that the flex tab addresses in my years of running an 870. If you load it properly, and "run it like you've got a pair", you won't experience this jam either. It's nice to have, but it certainly won't stop me from using my '59 model for self defense. What did LE do for the 30 some odd years before the flexitab was invented?

aippi 05-17-2013 16:07

Nor have I, however, on the range I have had to clear plenty of them while re-qualifingt officers. I am assuming and maybe wrongly so that when people ask basic questions on a gun forum they are not as proficient as others and basic answers and advice are called for. However in this case the advice is the same for anyone who is going to use an 870 for defense.

I have never discharged a shotgun in the line of duty and had I, I am not sure how it would have went being that stress and fear have entered the equation. So with that in mind I would recomend the Flex tab convesion for any 870 that could be used in a defense situation. Including mine. Jam a shell between the carrier and the breech bolt during a fight and you are now holding an 8 pound baton.

I do not know a single knowledgable person who would not prepare their fighting weapons to be a Murphy proof as possible.

What LEO's did for all those years is end up in fights with jamed weapons. That is why the Flex Tab Conversion kit was LE restricted for all those years and at a greatly reduced cost price to LEO upon verification it was a duty weapon or for Agencies. Remington felt obligated to correct this flaw in their LE weapons. While at the factory I specificlly ask why the Flex tab conversion kit was $78 and LE restricted yet a civlian could by the same three parts for $140. The answer was that the sporting models were for hunting and if a shooter had a jam he could stop and clear it without his life being in danger. But the police models were built for use against human threats that were shooting back and there was not time to stop and break a weapon down to clear it. I replied that the lives of all those people who use their older 870's for home defense and even Bear Defense were just as important as anyone elses and tens of thousand still put confidence older 870's to protect them and their loved ones.

I am still unclear if the LE restriction has been lifted for the Conversion kit. I think it depends on which cubical clown answers the phone when you call to order.


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