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juramentado 06-09-2004 08:09

question of permits and transporting
 
what permit do I apply for if I intend to take my handgun to more than 1 range? Like if I go to one place and get invite to try out a new range.

and will a permmit of this sort allow me to transport the gun via the MRT?

I don't want to get a permit to carry. Just a permit to bring it to the ranges and maybe the gunsmith from time to time.

horge 06-09-2004 18:46

You mean a
"Transport Permit To Carry Firearms for Gun Club Members"? (TP)

Yes, a single TP can apply to multiple firing ranges.
Some smartypants owners even try to list ranges all over the country.
;)

As for transporting a weapon via commuter train... hmmm.
The language of the permit goes thus:

3. While en route to the range from the residence and vice-versa, all firearms must be unloaded. The ammunition and firearm must be secured in two separate cases/boxes and further kept in two separate places (the trunk compartment and the glove compartment)

On the MRT or other commuter train...
You can try to fool yourself that carrying the stuff in separate trolley-like, wheeled-luggage-type bags constitutes 'separate compartments' that are distinct from on-body carry devices (I mean like, what's the legal diff between keeping the stuff in a worn backpack and holstered carry, which --loaded or unloaded-- requires a PTCFOR?)... but to me it seems a really bad idea, security- and safety-wise, before you even get to legal aspects.

Grit your teeth. Bear the traffic.
Use the car.
:)

A TP is valid for three (3) months.

hth

PMMA97 06-09-2004 21:08

When I purchased a firearm at SM Mega Mall (during the gun ban) I asked one of the sales rep there if it would be possible to legally transport the FA (using the pttfa) in a public conveyance vehicle of any type. She called one of the LO who was in the FED at that time and they said that any transport of firearms thru public convenyance is NOT allowed by the PNP. Not that it matter to me at that time because I had my car with me and I drove all the way to Zambales with my FA.

Tama ba yung sales rep guys?

antediluvianist 06-10-2004 08:04

you get stopped and examined?
 
The gunrange/whatever that got you the permit should have listed a whole bunch of gunranges, in all points of the compass, so wherever you are going there is gunrange in that direction in case you are stopped.

But honestly, guys, have you ever been stopped? How many times do cops stop your car to look into your briefcase? Or stop you while you are walking along a street. Honestly, has never happened to me. Has it happened to you? (of course I am not talking about walking into a mall with a gun - yup, the security guards could find your gun with their handheld metal detectors.)

Or maybe I look so harmless that nobody thinks of stopping me. Just look bland.

Valor1 06-10-2004 23:01

Personally, I've never been topped/accosted or whatever the term is by any police officers with or without a PTC. Even the checkpoints only adhere to "looking" only at a vehicle through their windows. I guess they have to present a search warrant to do a "thorough" search.

The only time I was "chased" and asked to pull over by a police car was when they had a report that I was involved in a hit and run incident. They didn't even search my car. After the smoke has cleared, they let me go because I was the wrong car.

I was also apprehended before in a checkpoint because they saw my M4 airsoft gun (I was playing war games then). They said that it could be improvised and I have to explain it to the precinct. The funny thing is that I have my Glock 29 under the seats. Even though they find the Glock I still have a current PTC then.

i guess playing the weakling or innocent can help. the extreme is you can also play the part of a vip. he he he

9MX 06-28-2004 18:52

Re: question of permits and transporting
 
Quote:

Originally posted by juramentado

and will a permmit of this sort allow me to transport the gun via the MRT?


Yup, just have the pistol inside a locked "non-gun box" case (to get around this, just put the pistol case in a backpack, in transit, it must be unloaded and with the complete docs to accompany it;)

attyjpl 07-06-2004 11:39

VISUAL SEARCH
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Valor1
Personally, I've never been topped/accosted or whatever the term is by any police officers with or without a PTC. Even the checkpoints only adhere to "looking" only at a vehicle through their windows. I guess they have to present a search warrant to do a "thorough" search.

The only time I was "chased" and asked to pull over by a police car was when they had a report that I was involved in a hit and run incident. They didn't even search my car. After the smoke has cleared, they let me go because I was the wrong car.

I was also apprehended before in a checkpoint because they saw my M4 airsoft gun (I was playing war games then). They said that it could be improvised and I have to explain it to the precinct. The funny thing is that I have my Glock 29 under the seats. Even though they find the Glock I still have a current PTC then.

i guess playing the weakling or innocent can help. the extreme is you can also play the part of a vip. he he he



a search at a checkpoint is one of the exceptions to the "no warrant, no search/arrest" rule found in our criminal procedure books. therefore, if you are flagged down at a checkpoint, the cops/military can "search" your person and vehicle. but take note, the search is limited only to a "VISUAL" search of your vehicle and the cops/military should never touch or lift anything.

even if they have a search warrant, they can only search for SPECIFIC things or objects mentioned in the warrant itself, and limited only to the place(s) specified therein. if they see anything suspicious or illegal in your vehicle (not mentioned in the search warrant), they have the authority to confiscate it BUT they cannot use it as evidence against you. in short, it is inadmissible in evidence in court. this is what is called "the fruit of the poisonous tree."

so if you're hiding something, the best way is to avoid. always be alert and be quick to assert your constitutional rights when needed. if the cops/military knows that you are aware of your rights, they will most likely leave you alone or set you free. bottomline mga pare, wag kayong tatanga-tanga
;f

vega 07-06-2004 15:28

Quote:

Originally posted by horge
Some smartypants owners even try to list ranges all over the country.
;)

When I was back there, my PTT reads, "To all legal and valid ranges in the Philippines."

I don't know if you can still do that.

vega

horge 07-06-2004 16:49

Good reminders on checkpoint exposure, jpl. Thanks :)


Vega,
The new TP has to specify which range(s) the user intends to frequent.
I wish it was more like you remember
:(


9MX,
Winkie aside,
Are you saying you've ACTUALLY transported via MRT? ;f

Lots of beginners may be reading this thread...
so, just to make sure no one takes the thing lightly...
they do search your bags at the station entrance, and often enough do it pretty thoroughly. The hassle --even if your 'MRT-friendly' interpretation of the permit language is somewhow correct-- arising from MRT security discovering that you're trying to board a train with a firearm, might be considerable.

:)

9MX 07-06-2004 18:19

Re: VISUAL SEARCH
 
Quote:

Originally posted by attyjpl

even if they have a search warrant, they can only search for SPECIFIC things or objects mentioned in the warrant itself, and limited only to the place(s) specified therein. if they see anything suspicious or illegal in your vehicle (not mentioned in the search warrant), they have the authority to confiscate it BUT they cannot use it as evidence against you. in short, it is inadmissible in evidence in court. this is what is called "the fruit of the poisonous tree."
;f

so if this happens to any of us in area not covered by our PTT, do still get the gun back? by padrino system i suppose?

Quote:

9MX,
Winkie aside,
Are you saying you've ACTUALLY transported via MRT?
nope, i based my post on the laws i came across atty. topacio's book on firearms and explosives. this is because i also wondered how those gun owners who don't have their own vehicles can use their PTT.

attjpl,

care to comment on this?:)

antediluvianist 07-06-2004 21:33

getting a "Mission Order" for a group shoot
 
My company is holding a meeting out of town later this month. Since most of us, by chance, are gun owners, and since the place we will be meeting at is a rather isolated semi-resort (we could set up targets), we intend on getting a "Mission Order" from the military.

Well, that's an idea that may be of use to some of you guys. A corporate "gang-bang" in the province, covered by a Mission Order. I have no idea how to get a Mmission Order but somebody in the group has connections with the military and says it's not a problem.

attyjpl 07-07-2004 11:03

Re: Re: VISUAL SEARCH
 
Quote:

Originally posted by 9MX
so if this happens to any of us in area not covered by our PTT, do still get the gun back? by padrino system i suppose?

definitely not pareng 9mx, unless you are carrying a "paltik" or an illegal firearm. i was referring to an illegal object or thing, like a bladed weapon (more than 6 inches), or an illegal firearm. for as long as your firearm has papers, hindi naman yan kukumpiskahin.




nope, i based my post on the laws i came across atty. topacio's book on firearms and explosives. this is because i also wondered how those gun owners who don't have their own vehicles can use their PTT.

attjpl,

care to comment on this?:)

frankly pare, the PTT can be subjected to many interpretations, lalo na sa aming mga lawyers. if you analyze it, it's a PERMIT TO TRANSPORT, right? is by owning a vehicle the only way to transport a firearm from your residence to the range? the key word here is "TRANSPORT". if our police and military authorities will interpret the PTT as being limited only to firearms owners with vehicles, then they SHOULD change the name to "permit to transport firearms for vehicle owners".

the bottomline here is, it's totally unfair to those who do not have their own vehicles. until someone questions this in court, i believe that even gun owners who do not have their own vehicles CAN VALIDLY transport their firearms from their residence to the range, and vice versa.

i just got my PTT recently and will probably stick to it until i can amass enough budget for a PTC, which will cost around 5,500-6,000. even then, i carry my piece "lock and loaded" -- a direct "violation" of condition #3 of the PTT. i live inside the malacanang area and do not encounter any problem with PSG guards. kung sakali man, it's fairly easy to unload my gun and separate the magazines. technicality lang naman if you violate condition #3. ang importante you HAVE a valid permit to own and possess.

;)

attyjpl 07-07-2004 11:13

Re: getting a "Mission Order" for a group shoot
 
Quote:

Originally posted by antediluvianist
My company is holding a meeting out of town later this month. Since most of us, by chance, are gun owners, and since the place we will be meeting at is a rather isolated semi-resort (we could set up targets), we intend on getting a "Mission Order" from the military.

Well, that's an idea that may be of use to some of you guys. A corporate "gang-bang" in the province, covered by a Mission Order. I have no idea how to get a Mmission Order but somebody in the group has connections with the military and says it's not a problem.

just an advice pare. pls be careful with mission orders. several months ago (before the gun ban), i was able to get an MO from ISAFP but it was revoked. i paid 10,000 for it but the unit officer and his men "commercialized" it. he was caught. his name was on the newspapers for more than a week. kawawa naman.

;g

9MX 07-08-2004 08:03

Re: Re: Re: VISUAL SEARCH
 
Quote:

Originally posted by attyjpl
i just got my PTT recently and will probably stick to it until i can amass enough budget for a PTC, which will cost around 5,500-6,000. even then, i carry my piece "lock and loaded" -- a direct "violation" of condition #3 of the PTT. i live inside the malacanang area and do not encounter any problem with PSG guards. kung sakali man, it's fairly easy to unload my gun and separate the magazines. technicality lang naman if you violate condition #3. ang importante you HAVE a valid permit to own and possess.

;)

So What happens if condition # 3 et. al. is violated? Does the police have the right to confiscate the firearm?

jundeleon 07-08-2004 08:55

attyjpl

parang kilala kita!

attyjpl 07-08-2004 10:17

AKO NGA!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jundeleon
attyjpl

parang kilala kita!

brod oca, ako nga!! hehehehe!! nandito ka rin pala.

punta ako bukas (friday) sa megamall sa gunshow. kita tayo dun. ill be there around 2pm. ;)

attyjpl 07-08-2004 10:27

Re: Re: Re: Re: VISUAL SEARCH
 
Quote:

Originally posted by 9MX
So What happens if condition # 3 et. al. is violated? Does the police have the right to confiscate the firearm?

NO, they have no right to confiscate your firearm. but they have the right to cancel/revoke your PTT.

if they insist on confiscating it, you can sue them for robbery or grave threats, as the case may be. be sure to get their names, rank and serial no. threaten them (if you have the balls to do so) that you will haul their asses to napolcom for grave misconduct.

they can confiscate your gun if: it is an illegal firearm, meaning you have no license to own and possess it; and, if it is used to perpretrate a crime, like if you used it to kill someone.

agentrod 07-08-2004 19:28

Quote:

NO, they have no right to confiscate your firearm. but they have the right to cancel/revoke your PTT.

Attyjpl
Thanks for the valuable info.

Do you really have to be a gun club member to get a PTT for a 9mm pistol? I was inquiring from a gun range before about licensing a 22cal pistol and he mentioned I dont need to be a gun club member to have it licensed, not sure about PTT.

casmot 07-09-2004 09:25

Quote:

Originally posted by agentrod
Attyjpl
Thanks for the valuable info.

Do you really have to be a gun club member to get a PTT for a 9mm pistol? I was inquiring from a gun range before about licensing a 22cal pistol and he mentioned I dont need to be a gun club member to have it licensed, not sure about PTT.

No, you don't have to be a gun club member. BUT the coverage of your PTT will be very limited. Limited to a couple of shooting ranges and valid only for a very short period.


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