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-   -   Is Practical Shooting Really Practical? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272095)

Eye Cutter 08-02-2004 19:48

Is Practical Shooting Really Practical?
 
Guys and Gals:

To those who compete, why do you participate in IPSC or IDPA matches?

To all those who do not compete, why not? Does it really ingrain bad habits?

How do you practice your gun handling and marksmanship skills? How do you simulate the pounding of the adrenalin rush?

Is practical or combat shooting really practical? Your views on this controversial topic please.

:cool:

Eye Cutter 08-02-2004 19:55

I compete in matches because...
 
...it is a lot of fun

...self-discipline around firearms is non-pareil

;f

jasonub 08-02-2004 20:00

ipsc is not practical and does not teach tactics but its hell of fun!

idpa ditto, though they do give you some rules to protect yourself. they made too much rules. you should only engage target x at this port. though you can see it way back. do a tactical reload here. you cant use this kind of gun though you carry it.

The bottom line is both are games and you need points to win.

But in real life its different. tunnel vision. targets behind you etc.

my 2cents

jundeleon 08-02-2004 20:28

Its true gun games teach you how to shoot with precision/accuracy and to handle guns with proper care and discipline. As a hobby, its fun although expensive to pursue.

However, as a training ground for self defense situations, to me it doesnt seem to be completely practical or relevant. I think it will never totally replicate real world shooting situations where the targets shoot back and a host of dynamic circumstances are present. IMHO a more relevant, practical training would be the one which simulate actual shooting scenarios like the ones used by police and feds in the us where real service guns firing simunitions (paintball-like bullets) are utilized.

JuDGe 08-02-2004 20:32

Re: I compete in matches because...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Eye Cutter
...it is a lot of fun

...self-discipline around firearms is non-pareil ;f

And I get to hang-around with superb guys who share the same passion! ^c

antediluvianist 08-02-2004 21:08

I don't compete - yet - because I am fairly new to shooting and my eyesight is bad.

But it's something I may do in the future, especially when I retire, just for the hell of it. Do they have contests using shotguns?

batangueno 08-02-2004 21:33

I join matches (IPSC or IDPA) for fun, friends and food (join Team ParatingBusog). ;f

ogiebb 08-02-2004 21:38

i shoot IPSC because it makes me a better IDPA shooter;f ;f ...i shoot because its fun and i get to piss off some "Rambo" junkies and range geeks...

ogiebb 08-02-2004 21:40

Quote:

Originally posted by batangueno
I join matches (IPSC or IDPA) for fun, friends and food (join Team ParatingBusog). ;f

;z he he Mang enteng pa order naman po ng Lomi at tapsi..

Eye Cutter 08-02-2004 22:14

IPSC Shotgun is not as popular as IPSC Pistol but there is almost always a shotgun event when major matches are held at Armscor.

;K

Eye Cutter 08-02-2004 22:15

to all the defensive mindset junkies:

so how do you hone your skills in the local setting?

:cool:

Eye Cutter 08-02-2004 22:23

during the recent Eastern Police District Cup held at Armscor, it was an eye opener to see how our men in blue perform in their gun handling and marksmanship skills! wala ba silang yearly qualification and proficiency tests?

mikey177 08-03-2004 02:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Eye Cutter
to all the defensive mindset junkies:

so how do you hone your skills in the local setting?

Hey, who are you calling a junkie?! (just kidding) :)

I compete occasionally (about once a quarter) just so they don't kick me out of my gun club. ;Q For non-competition practice, I also run courses of fire, but with a defensive mindset (sometimes shooting strong-hand, sometimes weak hand, while running, while behind cover, kneeling, in reduced light, etc.). Also, shooting with other like-minded individuals helps me to critique areas or skills where I may be deficient.

I also work on close-quarter shooting skills at home using an airsoft replica of my gun, since doing the same at a range may freak the ROs out. I'm still trying to convince people to join me in airsoft force-on-force simulations. These are quite difficult to set up on one's own.

But hey, I like going to competitions too, just because the other BoGs will be there ;)

Alexii 08-03-2004 05:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Eye Cutter
to all the defensive mindset junkies: so how do you hone your skills in the local setting?:cool:
He he-- in other words, me, mikey, and darwin.;f

Whenever I have the chance to visit the range, I try to expend 100 rounds doing various defensive drills, mostly shooting on the move. The objective here is to hit the targets consistently while moving. Whenever possible, I shoot also with the lights switched off at the range (using a Surefire white light). You'd be amazed of how much smoke a gunfire generates in darkness and therefore becomes a tactical consideration.

At home or in the office, I practice draw/move/shoot (dryfire) similar to what I do when in the range. While behind the wheel, I play out in my mind scenarios such as sudden stops, flank/rear attack, plus the "jimmying-with-my-car-door" robbery attempt.

I don't compete but I believe it instills good gun safety habits. It doesn't offer everything for training the warrior within, but at least it's something.;)

Allegra 08-03-2004 06:42

I'm amused by a lot talk that ipsc shooters would just charge blindly in a room or just stand in the open and wouldnt know how to take cover :)
I'm thinking if a guy was shooting at me, the first thing I would do was run or run for cover. Unless I'm too shocked to move hehe

a lot of police and pilitary ipsc shooters here have been in gunfights and they have done pretty well . Pero, I think they won the fight because the bgs were not really skilled with guns.

IMO, the biggest advantage of IPSC competition is that it trains you to be able to think on your feet.
Sa ipsc, your shooting, moving, changing mags etc while simultaneously engaging static and moving targets in the fastest order under pressure. Ang hirap nun! Lalo na when there are jams, reengages , missed activators etc.
The basic skills become automatic freeing your mind to think of other things ( like tactics ).
Di ba advantage yun sa fight?

bulm540 08-03-2004 06:48

I'd rather be with an IPSC shooter than with anybody else when sh^% happens.

4eyes 08-03-2004 07:05

Quote:

Originally posted by bulm540
I'd rather be with an IPSC shooter than with anybody else when sh^% happens.
I will add "good" to the above. Watching master and upper "A" class IPSC shooters perform is like watching modern day ballet. Those guys shoot accurately from any body position and brass runs out of the gun about 3-4 inches apart. I wish I could have been "wired" that fast. I know, slightly, a couple team shooters that run 500 rounds a day through their guns as practice. And more rounds a day just prior to a match.

Alexii 08-03-2004 07:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Allegra
IMO, the biggest advantage of IPSC competition is that it trains you to be able to think on your feet.
Sa ipsc, your shooting, moving, changing mags etc while simultaneously engaging static and moving targets in the fastest order under pressure. Ang hirap nun! Lalo na when there are jams, reengages , missed activators etc.
The basic skills become automatic freeing your mind to think of other things ( like tactics ).
Di ba advantage yun sa fight?

You're correct there, Allegra, especially when a hundred pair of eyes are boring down on your neck watching your every move. The pressure alone it exerts down your shoulder makes the exercise relevant to the development of a self defense mindset.

I've read somewhere that it takes 3000 correct repetitions of an action for it to become second nature to the individual. Get the fundamentals down pat so you can deal with other unpredictable variables of the gunfight. So it boils down to supervised, regular practice. It helps if you have someone there with you to tell what you've been doing right or wrong. Not to mention it's more fun.;)

Allegra 08-03-2004 08:15

Dun sa other glock forum
i gather that ipsc shooters are at a disadvantage at close range
wala kasi alam na tactics defense
ex. - bubunot ka ba when the bg is at spitting distance with a knife?
Ako tatakbo :)hah! di ako kaya abutin nun

the bigger the distance, mas advantage sa ipsc shooter

doctabako 08-03-2004 08:23

There's another thread here in GT related to this topic which is now 55 pages long with more than 1,200 replies entitled A good competitor does not a gunfighter make and the replies range from amiable to hostile indicating the controversy and passion that this topic entails to some people.

My take on this is that engaging in gun games IS trigger time(Fun time, the best kind ;f) and as they say practice makes perfect. If you're methodical enough in your approach,huge rewards can be gleaned from diligent practice as opposed to those who compete just to throw slugs downrange without regard to improving how they do it.
A good competitor should be under no illusion that what he is doing will automatically make him a better gun fighter when the SHTF as various things do come to play and some people aren't wired for fighting(some become passive and/or take flight). Engaging in gun games will make you better prepared as you become proficient with the use of your weapon and conversely your limitations with it as well. All of which will serve you in good stead when you develop the mindset and summon enough courage to use it when necessary. :)

casmot 08-03-2004 09:01

Before I started joining competition I was a little scared of my gun. :) I would go to an indoor range and finish 50 rounds as fast as I could ;I. Heck, all I know was the basic gun handling stuff. After joining my first IDPA competition (thanks eyecutter ;W) I was addicted. It was fun, you get to learn but most important, I started to trust my gun. It was no longer a bomb. It became just a tool that you don't have to be afraid of, if you use it properly.

Originally posted by Allegra
IMO, the biggest advantage of IPSC competition is that it trains you to be able to think on your feet. Sa ipsc, your shooting, moving, changing mags etc while simultaneously engaging static and moving targets in the fastest order under pressure. Ang hirap nun! Lalo na when there are jams, reengages , missed activators etc.
The basic skills become automatic freeing your mind to think of other things ( like tactics ).
Di ba advantage yun sa fight?


I agree. After a while it all becomes second nature.

9MX 08-03-2004 09:16

I compete because:

1. IPSC shooting is a childhood dream
2. I've always been fascinated by guns
3. I like the confidence it gives me knowing that should the need arises, i have a higher probability of hitting a perp;f
The bonus is..hanging out with BOGs and learn new things in the process:cool:

Eye Cutter 08-03-2004 09:20

over confidence?
 
problema ko ngayon, wala na yung kaba ko when i'm on the line. i'm so used to the experience that it does not matter who're watching me or how i'd do in a stage.

competitive shooting makes you think on your feet, fast! just like when you're on the street. and that is a good thing. nagiging second nature na ang gun handling skills mo, e. wherever you look and whenever you present your pistol, naka align na agad sights mo. nagiging automatic. and that is also another good thing...

it is my opinion that those who compete, even if they don't win, are much more confident and capable with their firearms.

yun lang

;K

9MX 08-03-2004 09:23

Re: over confidence?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Eye Cutter

it is my opinion that those who compete, even if they don't win, are much more confident and capable with their firearms.

yun lang

;K

korek! we become more one with the gun:cool:

too many minds....no mind;)

rhino465 08-03-2004 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by bulm540
I'd rather be with an IPSC shooter than with anybody else when sh^% happens.

I agree with Remo. How practical IPSC is (or is not) depends entirely on the mindset of the individual shooting the matches. Being able to shoot very quickly and accurately as well as engage multiple targets is a very valuable set of skills that you simply can't develop to the same degree anywhere else. Certainly there is more to defensive or combat shooting, but you learn those things elsewhere.

Here is an example of an A-class USPSA shooter handling the situation:

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articl...e000014014.txt


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