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-   -   Out-of-state visitor buying a handgun in Florida (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536846)

bigtuna 05-04-2006 12:25

Out-of-state visitor buying a handgun in Florida
 
Hi, I'm going to be visiting the Venice area of Florida this weekend, coming from Virginia.

I plan to go to the Suncoast Gun Show in Fort Myers on Sunday. If I see a gun I want to buy, I'd like to be able to buy it and take it home with me the same day.

From what I've read, there is a 3-day waiting period when buying guns from a retail establishment, unless the buyer has a concealed weapon permit.

I have a current Virginia CCW permit.

Will I be able to buy a gun at the Florida gun show and take it home the same day?

Someone else on GT was telling me that I cannot take ownership of the gun at the show, and it would have to be shipped to my FFL dealer in Virginia. I can't find any mention in the Florida law of this. Is this true, even though I have a Virginia CCW permit? I'd contact the Suncoast Gun Show with this question, but they don't have an e-mail or phone number on their website.

Steve-O 05-04-2006 12:39

I hope I'm interpreting this correctly, but in Jon Gutmacher's book, "Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership", Sixth Edition 2006, on page 26 under the section entitled Legal Out-of State Purchase by Non-FFL, it says that unless you're an FFL, you would not be able to take posession of the firearm here under 27 CFR 478.147. The firearm would have to be shipped to an FFL in the resident's home state, where the buyer can take posession of the firearm upon completion and submission of Form 4473 and approval by NICS computer check.

bigtuna 05-04-2006 12:40

Is there any exception if the buyer holds a CCW permit? Virginia and Florida have CCW reciprocity.

czbillt 05-04-2006 12:56

My info is a few years old, so unless the laws have changed, you must to be a RESIDENT of the state of FL to buy a HANDGUN face-to-face from a FL-based FFL dealer. Although your VA CWP gives you the legal ability to carry in FL, I do not believe it allows you to purchase a handgun from and FFL dealer, as that ability is reserved for state RESIDENTS, so exempting the three day wait would be a moot point. If the law has changed and I am wrong, I apologize in advance.
:cool:

bigtuna 05-04-2006 13:05

Hmmm, this is starting to sound pointless for me to go to the gun show if I can't buy a gun there and take it home. Shipping and FFL transfer fees would defeat any cost savings.

Steve-O 05-04-2006 13:06

Hmmm. I seemed to have scuffed over that a bit. I would guess that with the various levels of reciprocity, this could be a very gray area and, because of the nature of the purchase, would probably need to be interpreted by a Florida lawyer with such expertise.

Well, I'm not a lawyer (hence, my "interpretation" disclaimer in my first post), and I don't even play a third-rate one on TV. :upeyes:

But, Mr. Gutmacher has a web site at www.floridafirearmslaw.com and a phone listed in his book at 407-650-0770. You might be able to e-mail him, if the site has such a reference, or call him. It's my understanding that he is the definitive source for this knowledge, but it may cost you. Such a fee might be well worth it, considering the backlash of misinterpreting these laws.

Good luck.

czbillt 05-04-2006 13:24

Although you will get their "interpretation" of the law, you may just want to contact an FFL dealer / gunshop in the FT Myers area and see what they tell you. Heck, you may find that if I was mistaken in what I wrote above, you may be able to buy it directly from a shop (vs. gunshow)in Ft Myers. If you would like, I can list the phone number / contact info for a very reputable gun shop in the Ft Myers area or the phone number for the local BATFE office, which should be able to give the "final answer" to your quandary. Let me know if I can help. Good luck. :cool:

bigtuna 05-04-2006 13:25

I just found the number for the Florida Dept of Law Enforcement Firearms division, and gave them a call.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/faq/#firearm

They said that out-of-state residents cannot purchase handguns in Florida. However, out-of-state residents may purchase long-guns.

I told him I have a Virginia CCW permit, and he said it doesn't matter. I would need to be a Florida resident to buy a handgun.

Well, that answers my question. Guess I'm not going to bother going to the gun show.

LGCubana 05-05-2006 09:05

It's not a state level restriction; it's at the Federal level. Since you would be crossing a state line.

No out of towner can purchase a pistol over the counter in another state. Same rule applies to individual sales. You are only allowed to sell/buy from someone within your own state.

The exception might be if you hold a valid FFL Lic.

noway 05-05-2006 09:09

ditto

No state that I'm aware of will let a NON-resident buy a gun without going to a FFL for the transfer.


Longguns are a different store. Like stated above, if you want to be an NON-residnet and buy a gun and take it home at the same time, get a FFL license and that's the only way you can do it legally.

Knowing of selling a gun to a NON-residnet directly is a misdemeanor iirc.

Rat 05-07-2006 19:52

Long guns but no handguns. If you have to ship to a FFL you might as well start shopping the Firearms for Sale right here on Glocktalk. You can start by looking at mine first >>> :supergrin:

FlaChef 05-10-2006 20:21

even w/out the shipping and transfer they are no real savings at the shows anymore anyway.
I'd still go and look at the accessories and try on a few pistols you might not see at your local shops.

Gmountain 05-11-2006 16:59

Quote:

Originally posted by LGCubana
It's not a state level restriction; it's at the Federal level. Since you would be crossing a state line.


That's exactly right. You must be a resident of the state where you are purchasing the handgun (if not a resident it must go through an ffl in your state).

A CCW has nothing to do with it. The 3 day wait is irrelevant since you cannot take possession of a handgun here.

That law applies, btw, on face to face private sales as well.

vangion 05-27-2006 07:05

Long guns can only be bought in neighboring states.

The show may be good for pieces parts but buyingguns is out unlessyou have them shpped to a home town FFL and transferred

SDBettas 06-03-2006 05:56

Answer is no
 
There is no way for an out of state visitor to buy a handgun, gunshow or gunshop and legally take posession of it at that time. Having it shipped to an FFL in your home state is the only legal way.

PJH 06-03-2006 06:36

Quote:

Originally posted by vangion
Long guns can only be bought in neighboring states.

The show may be good for pieces parts but buyingguns is out unlessyou have them shpped to a home town FFL and transferred

Is this correct? Do you have the actual statute? My understanding, which I have had confirmed by dealers, is that the wording used is not "neighboring" but "contiguous", in which case a resident of any of the lower 48 would be OK, for a long gun.

-Paul

vangion 06-05-2006 23:55

My opinion is based on my understanding of the word contiguous
Quote:

1. Sharing a common boundary: adjacent, adjoining, conterminous, next. See near/far/distance.
2. Not far from another in space, time, or relation: adjacent, close, immediate, near, nearby, nigh, proximate. Idioms: at hand, under one's nose, within a stone's throw, within hailing distance. See near/far/distance.
Which apparently differs from ATF's understanding
Quote:

From ATF P 5300.4 -- Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide:

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
B. UNLICENSED PERSONS
(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only buy a firearm within his own State except that he may buy
a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State,
provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale
and the State where the purchaser resides.
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29]

bigtuna 05-21-2007 20:03

Needed to resurrect this thread...

I'm now living in Hawaii as a full-time resident, where the gun control laws are oppressive and it's actually costly to go through the process to buy a gun.

My father lives in Florida and I plan on visiting him at least once a year. I have pretty much all the handguns I've been interested in buying, but I'd like to buy an AR-15 complete lower receiver.

When I visit my Dad in Florida, can I buy an AR-15 complete lower receiver as a non-resident of Florida? I'm not sure if that's considered a long gun or what, and I don't know if there's a consensus here as to whether a non-resident of Florida can even buy a long gun. AR-15's are legal in Hawaii, the only restriction is a 10-round magazine cap.

I wanted to buy an AR-15 complete lower receiver in Virginia where I'm visiting next week, but the dealer said "You can buy long guns from me if you're from a state which I'm familiar with the laws. But I'm unfamiliar with Hawaii laws, so I better not sell you any long guns." Not very helpful.

Also, can you recommend a (helpful) gun store in the Venice or Sarasota area? I'm sure an e-mail or phone call to them will answer my question right away. Thanks.

Gmountain 05-22-2007 05:10

Quote:

Originally posted by bigtuna
Needed to resurrect this thread...

I'm now living in Hawaii as a full-time resident, where the gun control laws are oppressive and it's actually costly to go through the process to buy a gun.

My father lives in Florida and I plan on visiting him at least once a year. I have pretty much all the handguns I've been interested in buying, but I'd like to buy an AR-15 complete lower receiver.

When I visit my Dad in Florida, can I buy an AR-15 complete lower receiver as a non-resident of Florida? I'm not sure if that's considered a long gun or what, and I don't know if there's a consensus here as to whether a non-resident of Florida can even buy a long gun. AR-15's are legal in Hawaii, the only restriction is a 10-round magazine cap.

I wanted to buy an AR-15 complete lower receiver in Virginia where I'm visiting next week, but the dealer said "You can buy long guns from me if you're from a state which I'm familiar with the laws. But I'm unfamiliar with Hawaii laws, so I better not sell you any long guns." Not very helpful.

Also, can you recommend a (helpful) gun store in the Venice or Sarasota area? I'm sure an e-mail or phone call to them will answer my question right away. Thanks.

You can certainly buy a gun and have it shipped to an FFL in Hawaii and take delivery there, provided it's legal.

SDBettas 05-22-2007 07:37

Same rules will apply.
 
In your example of buying a gun in Florida and having it shipped to Hawaii, you will still need to jump through the same hurdles as if you bought it Hawaii. The only difference being you made the monetary transaction in Florida. The FFL transfer part will remain the same.


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