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-   -   I got orders and I'm happy and pissed (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664307)

tyesai 03-01-2007 15:13

I got orders and I'm happy and pissed
 
This is the deal. I put in for Turkey and Lajes, both of them are remotes but accompanied. My rip came down today and said I was going to Turkey, wooooohooooo, cool beans. After I went to MPF to see if I could get and extension on my report no later than they said it wouldn't be a problem but why did I want to extend that.

I said I have a house to sell, an extra car that I can't ship and a wife and two kids to get ready to go and that it would be tough to do by July 10. They told me that they weren't coming with me, that it was a short tour not an acompanied extended tour.

I'm not *****ing just yet but I've never heard of anyone not being allowed to go on an accompanied tour to Turkey, that is why I put in for the orders to the place. It would be different if I put in for the Korea or Irag tour, no dah that I wouldn't be allowed to take my family.

I'll do whatever the Air Force needs me to do. If I get stuck over there I miss a crap load of my babies younger years, I have a 2 and 1/2 year old daughter and a seven month old boy. But I'll do it, with the hope that I can make a bank load of extra money and get ahead on the whole retirement thing. I've got little more than 6 years left.

Me and the wife have already decided that if I have to give some on the front end to get more on the back end we could deal with it. The biggest thing that sucks is I just went TDY to Keesler for 6 weeks wich wasn't that bad, but my 2 and 1/2 year old daughter told mom she was mad at me for leaving a few days after I got back. It KILLS ME.

Oddly enough my wife used to work in MPF and knows people so she is trying to find out why we aren't being allowed the option on if it is accompanied or non accompanied.

I really don't know why I'm posting this other than looking for someone that knows something about the whole remote tour thing or maybe some feel good from someone. I'll keep ya'll posted if you wish as things develop.

md2lgyk 03-02-2007 09:56

When I was in the Navy, the form for requesting your next assignment was called a "dream sheet." Now you know why.

remoandiris 03-03-2007 04:52

Is the base you're going to "dependent restricted"? I remember reading about some assignments to Turkey were going dependent restricted. Just like some assignments to Korea are accompanied, others are not.

At least you get your remote out of the way and it's only a year or 15 months. However, I understand your frustration.

rhikdavis 03-03-2007 06:11

Quote:

Originally posted by remoandiris


At least you get your remote out of the way and it's only a year or 15 months.

And I used to think six month cruises were a beeyotch. Guess I ain't seen nothin'.

tyesai 03-03-2007 06:57

It is being worked, everyone tells me not to worry that the whole family will be able to go. If so I think it will be cool, Turkey looks like a very interesting country.

remoandiris 03-03-2007 15:44

I spent 3 yrs at Lajes from Sep 85 - Sep 88. I think you'll enjoy Turkey MUCH better than Lajes, especially if the family can join you. Shooting will likely be out of the question for your tour, but sacrifices must be made.

If you want to stay overseas, put in for an indefinite DEROS and choose your follow-on VERY carefully. Overseas jobs are getting harder to come by. I've spent enough time outside the US. Other than being stationed in New Jersey again, I don't think there is a base OCONUS that I would go to over a base in the good old U S of A.

msg1 03-10-2007 23:38

So you volunteered for a remote, and got it, and now you are surprised that you have to leave in July and might not get to take your family with you?

I guess you learned the hard way about doing research up front...there are unaccompanied tours in Turkey. And the RNLTD date shouldn't have been a surprise to you either...the RNLTD window is advertised with the assignment cycle. Someone with 14 years in service should know this stuff.

Hope it all works out for you...but you won't get much sympathy from those of us out here working on our 4th and 5th remote tours away from our wives and children.

tyesai 03-11-2007 07:08

Quote:

Originally posted by msg1
So you volunteered for a remote, and got it, and now you are surprised that you have to leave in July and might not get to take your family with you?

I guess you learned the hard way about doing research up front...there are unaccompanied tours in Turkey. And the RNLTD date shouldn't have been a surprise to you either...the RNLTD window is advertised with the assignment cycle. Someone with 14 years in service should know this stuff.

Hope it all works out for you...but you won't get much sympathy from those of us out here working on our 4th and 5th remote tours away from our wives and children.

Just to let you know, if you dig into 36-2110 Incirlik is an accompanied tour, hence the reason I volunteered, I did my research. There was no restrictions on my paperwork, I found out that MPF didn't have a clue. I went through a week and half of crap because some duesch bag SSgt all the way up to the Lt that is in charge of the place doesn't know what the f___ they are talking about. I was building a case to file an IG complaint but they got "clarification" from AFPC that it just becomes a 24 month accompanied. It really was a fiasco that didn't need to happen and is because of piss poor training. I knew what I was talking about, they didn't, I dug into the regs, I'd be suprised if they new wich one covered Chair Force assignments.

I'm still going to file a formal complaint because these guys are messing with peoples careers and don't know what they are talking about. This should be one of the simplest aspects of their job at MPF. I learned more about the assignment process this last week than I ever cared to know.

I can deal with the RNLTD. We can make that happen without to much trouble. It is kind of quick but I was picked up as a re-selectee, meaning that someone else got notified in Dec but couldn't make it so I was the next best thing. That is why it is so quick.

We are all happy we got the remote, we can't wait, I'm extremely pissed at MPF.

tyesai 03-11-2007 07:27

One more thing, if you have done 5 or 6 remotes without your family that is your perogative. I'd get out if my career was like that.

msg1 03-12-2007 00:15

If you are not willing to be away from your family without threatening to "go to the IG" then you need to get out. You sound like one of the typical spoiled rotten crybabies that we have far to many of in the Air Force today....

We are at war, so *****ing about having to leave your family is bull**** and saying you would get out if you had to be away that much just highlights my point.

Glad it worked out for you though...enjoy your tour.

tyesai 03-12-2007 11:19

Quote:

Originally posted by msg1
If you are not willing to be away from your family without threatening to "go to the IG" then you need to get out. You sound like one of the typical spoiled rotten crybabies that we have far to many of in the Air Force today....

We are at war, so *****ing about having to leave your family is bull**** and saying you would get out if you had to be away that much just highlights my point.

Glad it worked out for you though...enjoy your tour.

I didn't threaten anything, I was documenting all the crapy info that I was getting and using my chain of command to get the situation straightened out. I would have gone as high as I needed to though. You make it sound like I was crying because I had to go to the sandbox for a three month rotation.

It often amazes me how some people can just leave there family for extended periods of time and keep doing it over and over. I wouldn't do it and I would leave if it meant being gone constantly. I've heard stories of people going to Iraq for 6-8 months and then coming home and getting tagged to go to Korea. If your single that is great, being married with a two and a half year old and a seven month old I'd quit.

Juliet Lima 04-06-2007 21:55

I would involve the IG, so these idiots at MPF don't get away with this. I always wondered what liability the MPF and orderly room people had when they screwed something up. I had a huge pay problem that was the fault of MPF.

Anyway, I'm glad you now are able to take your family. My only regret of the time 8 years I spent in the USAF is that I didn't get to take my family overseas. Congratulations and have fun.

JL

Blitzer 04-07-2007 06:36

Quote:

Originally posted by tyesai
Just to let you know, if you dig into 36-2110 Incirlik is an accompanied tour, hence the reason I volunteered, I did my research. There was no restrictions on my paperwork, I found out that MPF didn't have a clue. I went through a week and half of crap because some duesch bag SSgt all the way up to the Lt that is in charge of the place doesn't know what the f___ they are talking about. I was building a case to file an IG complaint but they got "clarification" from AFPC that it just becomes a 24 month accompanied. It really was a fiasco that didn't need to happen and is because of piss poor training. I knew what I was talking about, they didn't, I dug into the regs, I'd be suprised if they new wich one covered Chair Force assignments.

I'm still going to file a formal complaint because these guys are messing with peoples careers and don't know what they are talking about. This should be one of the simplest aspects of their job at MPF. I learned more about the assignment process this last week than I ever cared to know.

I can deal with the RNLTD. We can make that happen without to much trouble. It is kind of quick but I was picked up as a re-selectee, meaning that someone else got notified in Dec but couldn't make it so I was the next best thing. That is why it is so quick.

We are all happy we got the remote, we can't wait, I'm extremely pissed at MPF.

Maybe one should wait until you are on the new assignment to file the complaint, less chance for retribution effecting your move. ;)

tyesai 04-07-2007 08:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitzer
Maybe one should wait until you are on the new assignment to file the complaint, less chance for retribution effecting your move. ;)
They already hate me anyway.

Ragnar 04-08-2007 14:51

Quote:

Originally posted by msg1
If you are not willing to be away from your family without threatening to "go to the IG" then you need to get out.

Did you actually read his posts? He clearly stated that MPF was clueless and tried to screw him over on an assignment that was accompanied when he applied for it. Going to the IG when the base agency is trying to screw you over in contravention with regulations is the appropriate thing to do.

I'm glad you don't work for me. With your attitude you'd never supervise a troop again.

msg1 04-09-2007 01:05

Going to the IG is the last thing you should do. First stop is understanding the assigment process and working through your chain of command, not whining about not wanting to leave your family.

Glad I don't work for you (doubt that would be the case anyway)...especially if your attitude is to coddle whiners and encourage them to run to the IG the moment something doesn't go their way...but that's generally the reaction for those who have been coddled as well.

tyesai 04-09-2007 10:38

Quote:

Originally posted by msg1
Going to the IG is the last thing you should do. First stop is understanding the assigment process and working through your chain of command, not whining about not wanting to leave your family.

Glad I don't work for you (doubt that would be the case anyway)...especially if your attitude is to coddle whiners and encourage them to run to the IG the moment something doesn't go their way...but that's generally the reaction for those who have been coddled as well.

Your distorting this kind of let me tell the story again and maybe you'll get because I am all over the way the assignment process works. I know more than I ever wanted to.

I do my research for remote tours and find out wich ones are accompanied tours. For me that is Diego Garcia, Lajes, and Incirlik. I volunteer for those three tours and few other places. I get a rip from MPF saying I am going to Turkey with a RNLT date of 10 July. I go over to MPF and ask them if I can get an extension of a few weeks for my RNLT date, they so no problem you do it through Virtual MPF but why do I want to extend it. I tell them that I need to sell a house ect; ect;. They look at the rip and tell me that it is an unacommpanied tour because at the bottome of the rip it says 15 months and it is a short tour only, not a long one. Right there they are using the wrong words to describe a short tour, it is either accompanied or unaccompanied, it is either 15 or 24 months. You do a long tour to a non remote area like Germany or you do an extended long tour.

My wife worked in MPF but not in assignments and says there is no restrictions on the paper work and it shouldn't be a problem. She goes over there and talks to them but they say they need to get permission from AFPC to make it a long tour, once again the wrong wordage. My old lady calls one of her friends that works at AFPC and tells her what the problem is, she talks to Chief Bob and he says it should be an accompanied tour but neither one of them will directly help us because we should all know they really can't, also note I wouldn't directly call AFPC because that is a no no but my old lady was calling one of her friends that she regularly talk to on the weekends.

In the mean time I've told my Shirt, SMSgt, and our Commander about the situation. My Shirt gets the numbers to AFPC and he makes the call. He gets ahold of a SSgt that says she doesn't know what MPF is talking about, you fill out a 965 and it is a done deal you take your family. He calls MPF and tells them what AFPC told them and they still insist that they can't change it from a short tour to a long tour that it has to be AFPC. Anyone else see the confuisionism going on here? I hit the regs because that is the only way you can get stuff done half the time is to do it yourself and be sure when your pissing in cherrios that you have all your ducks in a row.

A week goes by and still nothing. My Capt e-mails their LT about the problem and their LT says the Seargent so and so is a competent NCO and in NO WAY can MPF change that tour from a short tour to a long tour, I still have the e-mailed saved and he just pretty much spouted off what his NCO told him. Once again they are still clueless.

About this time I'm ticked at the world and I've already gone as high as I can on my chain of command and the MPF made it to their LT who came back with the smart *** e-mail that sent me over the top. So I put everything in chronological order, saved the e-mail traffic, printed it, and decided I was going to start building for an IG complaint. Granted I had a few more steps to go but I wasn't going to let this slip if it kept on for another 2 weeks.

Another week or so goes by and MPF gets an answer to their e-mail from AFPC and it says you just fill out the 965 and it becomes a 24 month accompanied tour. Two or more weeks of god knows how much undue stress because they lack the proper training. Then on top of that the Seargent forwards me the e-mail from AFPC and he adds to it, it says it has been changed to a long tour. I wanted to scream. Yep I'm nit picking at words but it isn't a little thing, to me it seems like they have learned nothing. They are messing with peoples careers up there and when they dick it up it is like oh well. What if I was a younger Airmen and didn't push. Someone could have gotten out over it.

As far as whining about not leaving my family it would be a different thing if I got orders for a remote to Iraq or Korea, yep I know they can't go there and I wouldn't pitch a fit, I'd either take them or get out. But when you've done your research and know others are wrong what is a matter throwing a fit. BTW your miss construeing the IG complaint. I wasn't going to file an IG complaint because I couldn't take my family, I was going to file it if I didn't get the problem resolved with the last few channels that were open. And most importantly I WOULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT to do so.

I'd like to also let you know I don't think I'm coddled. I do my job as a Crew Chief without complaint. I don't cry if we have to work late to get the job done, it is a mostly satisfying job and my wife being prior service understands the way things work so I don't hear any griping when the day doesn't end on time.

I still don't understand why you would give someone a hard time about picking their family over the Air Force. If I had had kids when I had 4 years in rather than 14 I probably wouldn't have stayed but the wife and I have agreed to give a little bit more on the front end of their lives so I can get some extra time when they are a little older, they will be 6 and 8 when I bail and I plan on going into teaching so I can have the summers off with them, my kids mean everything to me.

tyesai 04-09-2007 10:45

Let me make this clear one more time. I wasn't going to file an IG complaint because I got orders for a remote. I got the orders I wanted, new what was up, and was being told the wrong info and they were very insistent about it and they were dead wrong. Thank god AFPC e-mailed them back.

Ragnar 04-09-2007 10:55

Quote:

Originally posted by msg1
Going to the IG is the last thing you should do. First stop is understanding the assigment process and working through your chain of command, not whining about not wanting to leave your family.

Glad I don't work for you (doubt that would be the case anyway)...especially if your attitude is to coddle whiners and encourage them to run to the IG the moment something doesn't go their way...but that's generally the reaction for those who have been coddled as well.


Yes, I encourage coddling when the regulations are clearly being ignored. His MPF was wrong and was making no effort to fix the issue. I guess you'd encourage people to just bend over and let base agencies break regulations.

remoandiris 04-09-2007 17:42

Ever since the early 90s when VSI/SSB caused many mid-level NCOs to get out, FM, the MPF, SG and many other support agencies have sucked royally. Yes, 15 yrs later we are still suffering the effects of the post-Desert Storm drawdown. Each AF member, officer and enlisted, has to know the regs. There is a very high possibility of getting bad or incomplete info from people in those support offies who don't know the regs, won't admit they don't know, won't dig into them, and don't care.

A SrA who works for me has to seperate because the MPF gave him incomplete info. Another SrA who works for me will likely have to seperate for the same reason. Both put in for CJRs. Both were told they can't apply for retraining because they are on the CJR waiting list. The first SrA took himself off the CJR list so he could apply for retraining. As soon as he did that, the MPF told him he missed his retraining window. Since he didn't have a CJR and couldn't get back on the waiting list, he was screwed. The MPF gave him incomplete info. If the second SrA makes SSgt, she can apply for a CJR waiver. If she doesn't make SSgt, she's getting separated too.

Complaints to MPF leadership usually fall on deaf ears. An IG investigation may wake them up...at least for a little while.

I go the the MPF a few weeks ago to get my marksmanship award updated. The Amn at the MPF customer svc desk tells me my CSS does it. I go to my CSS, they say the MPF does it. Turns out the CSS was right. Same Amn tells me MPF employments can update my PME data for me. The TSgt in that office doesn't listen to me when she's on the phone with the ed center, so I get a run around there. Finally, I go to the ed center myself, explain what I need, what proof I have and am told they'll take care of it. Voila, it's done...by me. I have a job in the AF. It's not Personnel. I am an expert in my job, I shouldn't have to be one on MPF processes.

DLL66 04-11-2007 22:08

In my opinion, MPF and Finance sucks!! I'm PCSing and scheduled my final out for 14 May 07. I still do not have my hard copies of my orders. In my experience...MPF and the so called "Orderly Room/CSS" have sucked since 1999!!

DLL66 04-11-2007 22:13

Quote:

Originally posted by remoandiris
Shooting will likely be out of the question for your tour, but sacrifices must be made.


I was stationed in Incirlik between 2000 to 2002. The closest thing for shooting is Skeet. They have (or had?) a Skeet range on base. There was plans to construct a second skeet range next to it. Not sure if that was ever completed. Things have definitely changed now since the old ONW days.

Lowrider 49 05-10-2007 08:24

Make friends with the Turks...they loved to shoot and hunt (shotgun only)... when I was in Izmir in the mid 70's we had the NATO R&G Club andit was great!! They used to set the slots up to pay 40% so you could hit frequently and at least pay for beer and dinner.

Enjoy!!

leper65 05-22-2007 10:59

tyesai,

I'm glad that all worked out in the end. That kind of crap was one of the many frustrations that made my retirement an easy decision. You shouldn't have to do their jobs for them at MPF, Finance etc. Any time we had to deal with them we expected crap like to happen. It's like that all the way to end. I went in for my first retirement briefing and I immediately knew I was in trouble when the "briefer" was a 2 striper. Good luck in Turkey!

tyesai 05-22-2007 11:28

Quote:

Originally posted by leper65
tyesai,

I'm glad that all worked out in the end. That kind of crap was one of the many frustrations that made my retirement an easy decision. You shouldn't have to do their jobs for them at MPF, Finance etc. Any time we had to deal with them we expected crap like to happen. It's like that all the way to end. I went in for my first retirement briefing and I immediately knew I was in trouble when the "briefer" was a 2 striper. Good luck in Turkey!

Ya know it is ridiculous the piss poor training they have. I'm in maintenance and I don't expect a one or two striper to know jack squat but then again I wouldn't send a one or two striper to go do some trouble shooting or engine runs either. I also hope that when they have problems or don't know what to do they get some help rather than just sit there with a blank look on their face.

Here is another good example. I do the crew chief training for the new 130 guys and their last stop is at here at Little Rock airplane patch. Two of the students are married and have houses and they are staying here and wanted to get their house hold goods shipped down here. I told them to go to TMO at lunch.

They come back and I ask them if they got their stuff straight and I got a little bit of silence and then a "not really". I stopped them before they said anything more and I asked if they talked to an airmen that just pulled out a piece of paper and started highlighting items on it, I told them he probably started at about a third of the way down on the page.

That had them both laughing their .sses off. They said whenever they asked questions they just got a blank look and finally the airmen told them if they wanted to they could just drive to the nearest AFB by their home and they could do the paperwork there. For one of them that AFB is here, he lives two hours away and the other it would have been over 500 miles from his home.

They are new guys though too and probably have been in longer than the airmen at the TMO office so they were kind of afraid to ask for someone else like the NCOIC but I explained to them that is what you have to do sometimes and just remember the less rank you have the nicer you need to be about it.:thumbsup:


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