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-   -   Unloaded on Campus (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=687358)

Korey5640 04-17-2007 20:43

Unloaded on Campus
 
May sound stupid, but I have heard a few say its legal....

I legally own a G22, registered to myself, and am 18 y/o with a truck registered in my name. If I were to drive onto my high school campus with the gun stored unloaded, locked up in a locking case, inside the locked cab out of sight, legal or illegal?

The reason I ask is a friend of mine that lives the other side of the county wants to go shooting. The school is about half way between and a mutual point to go to the range from say on a Friday after school. If it makes a difference it is a private school, tuition, dress code, owned by a religious high school association, the whole nine yards.

jcevans 04-18-2007 07:09

I'm not sure what the state laws are regarding private schools, but I imagine your school's student handbook would address this kind of thing. I'd check there first.

Korey5640 04-18-2007 07:59

I have checked in the book, nothing is addressed about firearms. :supergrin:

Anyway, could this be done at a public school? I know this is different, but that would give me a general basis for asking around about laws about this type of thing. Though, this is different since it is "private property".

jcevans 04-18-2007 09:38

This may sound silly, but I think it is important in this case: Have you asked your parents what they think? If not, you should do that immediately.

Also, since you can't find anything in the student handbook, I'd look for an opportunity to ask your principal what school policy is on this matter. Having a good understanding of the relevant Michigan laws would be an advantage, so long as you use your knowledge respectfully in the conversation.

As for what the Michigan laws are for students wanting to have a registered firearm in their vehicle at a private school, I'm not certain. You might want to post this question in the "Carry Issues" section of GT or wait for someone more qualified to reply here. But make sure you don't fall victim to the "I read it on the internet so it must be true" disease ;).

Also, to avoid this whole dilemma entirely, you might seek permission to store your handgun at someone's house nearby. Maybe the father of one of your friends is an avid shooter and would be happy to keep your G22 safe during the day? To me, this would seem like a better option :thumbsup:.

rein-22 04-18-2007 13:03

z

10 Ring Tao 04-18-2007 16:58

Do NOT discuss this with anyone who works at the school. The pressure to be PC will always win out, and to cover their own asses, they cannot allow even the appearence of saying OK to having a gun on school grounds.

Your biggest concern is that someone finds out that you have ANYTHING to do with guns, and then they make a mountain of a mole hill and probably have your car searched.

When you say, "I want to keep a gun unloaded and locked in my car for a range trip after school", they hear, "I have a gun and want to bring it to school, and if the mood strikes me, I'll go on a columbine style shooting spree at lunch, opening the school to a mountain of law suits".

Lock it up in a box. Put it in the bottom of a duffle bag under some clothes. Put the bag in the least accessible place in your car and out of sight. Keep your mouth shut. Make sure your friend keeps his mouth shut too.

Oh, and don't forget to have fun while shooting. :supergrin:

jcevans 04-18-2007 20:20

While I deeply affirm his desire to be very careful and realistic with bringing up anything to do with guns and school, I have to disagree with 10 Ring's conclusion here. Just as flaming liberals can be wildly reactionary in their gun control rhetoric so too we shooters can be stupid in the way we press our rights, shooting ourselves in the foot. In other words, we need to be strategic in the battles we pick and not plunge headlong into quarrels that are relatively insignificant.

Korey, you should not do anything that is illegal and could land you in jail. It would be far better to forgo shooting with your friend rather than try to hide your gun in a bag and potentially be prosecuted. You can be held accountable for rules, policies, and laws that you know nothing about, and ultimately you need to be responsible to find out what the standards are. Take the high road here by either carefully talking to a sane administrator (they do exist, especially at a Christian school) or finding a way to secure your beloved G22 off-campus.

10 Ring Tao 04-18-2007 20:36

If its unloaded, locked in a case, and in the trunk, would he be actually breaking any laws?

The only fear then would be trouble from the school's actions.

Punctilious1 04-18-2007 22:17

Don't go near the school. Even if there's nothing illegal about it, you don't want to be in a situation where you have to even argue it.

You drive back and forth to school every day; I suspect another trip home and back and then to the range won't kill you.

And I wouldn't tell ANY other students about this - I'm sure you know how fast word can get around in a school.

jcevans 04-19-2007 06:40

Quote:

Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
If its unloaded, locked in a case, and in the trunk, would he be actually breaking any laws?

Possibly. And it would be Korey's responsibility to find out so that he can peaceably abide by State law and school policy.

JohnJak 04-19-2007 15:41

Guns are a no no on school property.

MrJinx 04-19-2007 16:07

First this is not meant as a flame to anyone or their expressed opinion on this thread's topic.

However, given all the recent school related events I can't help but wonder what good does banning guns on school do anyways? If someone is willing to use a gun for illegal purposes they're sure not deterred by having to commit one more offense.

Yes, I know taken to the extreme it could be agrued what is the good of any gun control. I wonder when we'll as a people realized you can't legistlate behavior. Make any law and someone, somewhere will break it.

Zippy06 04-19-2007 16:53

I made the mistake of talking. Can't help it.
At work. I was told, I am number one on the list. For going postal.
I told them. It's the "quite ones", you have to worry about.
This is a hobby.

wizzi01 04-19-2007 19:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Zippy06
I made the mistake of talking. Can't help it.
At work. I was told, I am number one on the list. For going postal.
I told them. It's the "quite ones", you have to worry about.
This is a hobby.

And they probably came up with that because they know you own guns. Typical bs from the frightened ones.

Zippy06 04-19-2007 20:00

Quote:

Originally posted by wizzi01
And they probably came up with that because they know you own guns. Typical bs from the frightened ones.
Yep.
And some own guns.

the_grimace 04-20-2007 12:13

As I am to understand it most, if not all publically funded schools in Michigan are a "Zero Tolerance" zone. This was inacted in 1995.

This meaning that drugs, alcohol, and firearms (or other weapons) are strictly prohibitied, even if they are legit.

There is some info at the links below

http://www.mackinac.org/pubs/mer/article.asp?ID=3893

http://www.ippsr.msu.edu/Publication...oTolerance.pdf

Cheers!

Cameron

Blitzer 04-20-2007 13:47

"A gun in the hands of a free man frightens and angers the autocrat,not because he fears the power of the gun, but, rather, the spirit of the man who holds it."

-Unknown


....Fearful men, particularly those who are afraid of guns, can never be victorious no matter how much 'training' they've received."


"If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other."

Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906)


We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.


Our new Constitution is now established, and has an appearance that promises permanency; but in the
world nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes.

jcevans 04-20-2007 14:00

Quote:

Originally posted by the_grimace
As I am to understand it most, if not all publically funded schools in Michigan are a "Zero Tolerance" zone.

Thanks for the info. It is possible, however, that Korey's school is not publicly funded.

[thread takeover mode on]

FWIW, I'm personally interested in the question of whether a private school could legally have different gun policies than a public school. For example, wouldn't it be neat if a private school could have a law abiding small bore shooting team that met after school? Kind of like a football team, only safer :supergrin:. Talk about an effective way to teach responsibility to young folks and promote the respectful use of firearms!

[off]

the_grimace 04-20-2007 14:12

I am not sure on the laws regarding the "private" schools and whether or not the State made a "blanket" to cover all schools or just publicly funded ones.

I like to think of it like this...

Assuming you have a CPL or CCW

You can legally conceal/carry your pistol into a restaurant/bar if less than 50% of the establishment's income is derived from the sale of alcohol.

If they make 51% or more of thier $$$ via alcohol sales...it's totally illegal.

Do you really want to be that guy who is peeing himself while the ATF is doing a record of sales count if you were to be exposed or reported?

My advice is to play it safe and keep all weapons off school property. If you do happen to have it in your vehicle make sure it is as you described (in locked case, unloaded, and unaccessible to occupants in the vehicle...the trunk) Also tell noone you have it, as word of mouth kills!

It is an interesting question though...

Cameron

phool 04-24-2007 21:23

For what it's worth, a guy in high school was nearly kicked out for having a paintball gun in his car. This was probably back in 99, right before the Columbine thing....


Forget even whether it's illegal or not... what will the court of public opinion say? I think having the gun would be illegal whether or not it's a private school... but regardless, if discovered you'd be arrested. You'd then have to pay to post bail, all of your lawyers fees, etc. Even if at some point the school rules in your favor, you've still spent a small fortune on lawyers just to get to that point.

Think of the boys of the Duke Lacross team. There was an accusation, the press and public ran with it, and a year later they finally have it somewhat sorted out. But all of those boys are broke now after all of their lawyer fees.

Bottom line... you're not in a life or death situation, so it sounds like you're risking your life (in the non-literal sense) for this. Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

MichiganPython 04-25-2007 07:12

Quote:

Originally posted by phool
Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

+ 1,001 :thumbsup:

opr1945 04-25-2007 20:08

On not telling anyone about what is in your car......

"three can keep a secret, if two are dead".

jwb 04-26-2007 18:58

It is illegal for a student to have a firearm on a school campus in Michigan.

A parent or guardian may have a weapon in possession in the car while picking up or dropping off a student...but must remain in the car.

Got questions-check link: http://www.migunowners.org/forum/index.php?

Your best solution is to park off campus and walk...leave your gun locked up in the car and get a little exercise;o)

hakuin 04-27-2007 20:33

No difference in the weapon free school-zone law for public or private schools...both are included (K-12 type institutions). There are some exceptions, but most can be found in this document
http://www.michiganlegislature.org/d...s/firearms.pdf
check out MCL 750.237a at page 141 or so in the document

mufasa1023 05-18-2007 09:44

18 and itching to bring a gun to school? If you can bring the gun in your car, keep it locked up the entire time not tell a single person (not even your shooting buddy) about it and not break the law by parking your car off campus...I say go for it.

But if you think that there is even the chance that you will tell ANYBODY, ever remove it from a locked hidden case, or carry it onto school property illegally than just leave it at home...it isnt worth the possible hassle.


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