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Old 02-02-2010, 00:42   #178
Alaskapopo's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 16,457

Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
So 9mm is a poor choice?

How does that matter if all bullets compared meet all FBI barrier penetration protocols, but then the relatively small bullet of the 357SIG continues to go above and beyond? Where does that leave the larger bullets?

SSA Urey Patrick of the Firearms Training Unit, FBI Academy, Quantico, VA, when asked; "Are you saying the 9mm is no good?" , replied;

"No, we are saying it is as good as the 38 Special, which has served us for a long time. It has severe limitations, which we are not willing to accept. It is woefully inadequate for shooting at people in cars, for example, and over half of our shootings involve vehicles. It is a marginally adequate wounding agent. We have had a number of 9mm shootings over the past couple of years, and if you define a good shooting as one in which the subject stops whatever he was doing when he gets shot, we have yet to have a good one, and we are hitting our adversaries multiple times. We have shot half a dozen dogs in the past year and have not killed one yet, although we have run up a significant veteranary bill. The 9mm with proper ammunition is not a bad round. It is just no where near as effective as the 10mm and 45 offerings and the disparity between it and the larger calibers has remained a constant throughout all the testing we have done over the past two years."

That quoted, are you sure he's on your side?

So lets get this straight......Incapacitation potential is POOR, terminal performance is EFFECTIVE, and all service calibers WORK using quality ammo. So they're poor but effective and work.

Maybe someone could enlighten the rest of us with definitions to the terms: poor, effective, and work. Sounds like a bunch of rubbish to me.

So you're almost laughing at yourself?

No, not at all, just life and death, no big deal.

You mean for those that want to blow off what Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU said in reguard to the 9mm being woefully inadequate among things that make it less than desireable? Notice that the FBI still doesn't use 9mm.

It's like a friend of mine always says; The 9mm against BGs is akin to using a BB gun to stop a freight train.

Good Shooting,
Actually Craig a great many FBI agents still carry 9mm's by choice. Not all carry Glock 22's and 23's. I would much rather carry a Sig 9mm that is reliable than a Glock 40 that historically are not.

As to my original comments that you took out of context. You do get more tissue damage as bore size goes up however you also get more recoil. Since we are not shooting single shot pistols you can not simple take tissue destruction by itself. Say your shooting a 10mm with full house loads and you have 1 seconds to fire you may get 2 to 3 accurate rounds off at close range. With the 9mm at the same range you will get more like 4 to 6 rounds. More bullets in the same amount of time means more tissue damage which means better stopping power. Frankly I don't really much care what the FBI says on the subject of stopping power. I don't take advice on selecting handguns and calibers from attorneys and accountants with badges. If I want advice on such matters I will turn to people who study shootings and wound ballistics like Dr. Roberts and Dr. Fackler. By the way you need to look up the issues the Indian State Police had with their Glock 40's. In fact do a search on the net regarding Glock 22's and weapon mounted lights. I am surprised this is new information to you. Top firearms instructors like Larry Vickers say if you want a Glock stick to 9mm.
Colt M16/AR15/ 1911 & Glock Armorer.
Certified Firearms Instructor & Urban Rifle Instructor.
Completed SWAT Entry Team and SWAT Sniper courses.
NRA Endowment Member
USPSA B class

Last edited by Alaskapopo; 02-02-2010 at 00:59..
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