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Old 02-10-2010, 13:50   #326
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
This means you did not read the thread, you're all wrong. The operative acronym in your post is FMJ. If you read the post you'll understand what I am talking about.
Both cause tissue to be forced away from their path at a 90* angle. Further, we are talking about hydraulic pressure in a system (vessels). A system with a myriad of valves, and weak-points all throughout it. The impact of a projectile on a vessel in the chest would cause plenty of other issues before it ruptured something in the brain.

Further, whether or not one is to accept this, "TBI" as fact, one cannot dispute that it is highly un-reliable. A psychological stop is much more likely than a "TBI" stop, if you will. There are numerous people alive who will attest to that, after having survived a GSW to the thoracic cavity.

Yes, there are things beyond what jello shows us that occur, and I cannot rule out that ruptured vessels in the brain may occur, but I can say that that is the last thing I want to be banking on as a mechanism of "stopping" someone from their course of action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
What accounts for instant incapacitation? Are you going to dodge this question again? When an animal falls instantly or a person, what's happeneing? It doesn't have ****** to do with "Hollywood"... there's no time to process the information.

And the firearms tactical link is about as rooky of a move that the 9 is fine camper can make, jeez. Good thing Urey's info is so fresh and new

What accounts for when this doesn't happen? Not every heart/lung-shot deer drops in its tracks. By all logic, this means that TBI is just as likely as it is not, even assuming that is the mechanism at all. Your own example shows the fallacy considering it a quantifiable, reliable wounding mechanism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
Yea I'm bias of his bad info, period. Fackler and his chronies will say anything to sell his Koolaid. If he's such an angel, and soo concerned for the agents, why did he publicly put down Dr. Roberts?

I can tell you don't know as much as you'd like people to believe.
You think Courtney and Courtney and Dr. Roberts aren't peddaling their own kool-aid? Everyone is selling something. Everyone has an agenda. It's just life.

The fact that there is a debate at all shows that there are things we do not understand. Some scientists stick to measurable, or more easily quantifiable outcomes more strictly than others. Considering the myriad of responses animals and humans have in response to piercing trauma, it is impractical to try to credit the external force with 100% of the outcome. Therefor, I feel that very tangible tests are best when measuring ammunition against ammunition.

That which produces the largest permanent hole, has better effect than that which produces the smallest, with regard to cessation of target action. As the disparity narrows, so does the effectiveness difference, to the point to where a smaller permanent cavity producing projectile, in a certain circumstance, may do better than a different one, because of immeasurable phenomina, or phenomina that is so numerous and inter-related as to be immesurable.

At what point does TC outweigh CC? To what extent? Does it ever?

These are all intangibles.

If I have a choice between equal CC and TC, and equal CC and larger TC, Obviously I want the equal CC and larger TC, but what if it were reversed?

Beyond blood volume loss, expansion, and penetration, and tissue crushed, this is a science of grays. The "gello shooters" are not ignoring this, rather they are choosing not to try to measure that which cannot be quantified and sticking with what can.

Science seeks to quantify what can be observed and measured. If you wish to place your faith in that which cannot, I suggest religion instead.

Last edited by N/Apower; 02-10-2010 at 14:10..
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