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Old 02-13-2010, 18:11   #391
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Originally Posted by N/Apower View Post
Brain-bleeds show up on imaging. How ELSE is there going to be TBI from a remote GSW, if not from a brain-bleed caused by a "pressure spike"?
Because brain injury does not necessarily mean brain damage.
Quote: I don't want to cause a grade 1 concussion. I want to cause incapacitation. Hell, being shot period is likely to cause "brief confusion", so I guess as long as Mr. Courtney can prove GSW's cause confusion, we can't DISPROVE that it didn't cause a grade 1, now can we? Sounds almost like religion to me. You can't show me your savior, but I can't NOT show you your savior either.
At this point for some I suppose there is truth in what you say about proving and disproving. Until someone does a more definitive study (like Dr. Courtney's but with a larger data set) for all to see who haven't seen it on their own I guess some people will be in the dark so to speak. A more definitive study also demonstrating more levels of BPW.
Once again, the religious type dogma of "you can't prove it's NOT real".
You mean except for Dr. Courtney's study?
You also have zero-evidence that there isn't a tea-pot circling the earth so fast and so far away that we cannot spot it that is controlling everything that happens with magic-waves.
Again, small data set or not, we do still have Dr. Courtney's study with lots of supporting evidence. More details and refined details would be nice, but we do have reasonably solid data to start out with.
That's right. More proof is needed. Why? because the effect claimed is so variable as to be attributable to many other things.
Not so much when animals are used for the testing which they have been so far.
Perhapse I did, but it was IMPLIED that this was so, otherwise why waste your time with the theory?
No it wasn't implied, or if it was I missed it. I don't know of anyone around here that supports the BPW theory in the sense they expect results 100% of the time.
Do all .45 auto loads produce a larger hole than any 9mm Luger load? Are you saying that?
Permanent wound volume.
Permanent wound volume, blood volume loss, expansion, penetration, and crushed tissue are all a science of grays. Not on whether or not they probably will happen, but to what extent, shooting to shooting.
On the flip-side, you have the 9mm from the Miami shootout. There are always outliers.
True but beside the point. I was point out a round that does penetrate far enough but was still generally labeled as a failure.
A 115gr Corbon is likely to fragment upon striking a humerous, etc. and may not penetrate deep enough into the thoracic cavity. Further, I have not seen where the 357SIG is doing so much better than modern 147gr 9mm. Several departments use the 147gr loads and are quite happy with them. Same for the 357SIG.
Right, most LE have left the various 115gr loads for heavier counterparts. Maybe it's just because you haven't been around here in caliber corner long enough yet, but there's been plenty discussed by LE and hunters on the 357SIG being clearly superior overall in terms of incapacitation over 9mm.
Because I do think that TC matters. TC is basically "tissue displaced". When I punch someone, it doesn't create a permanent cavity of course, but when I fought full contact, I had good results from a properly placed punch, ESPECIALLY against people who were not motivated very highly. Ergo, if someone isn't very motivated, maybe it will make them feel a little sicker to their stomach? I don't know for sure, but why not? In the same stance, I can agree with you on BPW, that it is nice to have a bullet with a "high psi" rating as long as it does acceptably in other areas.
Interesting way of looking at it. (That was meant in a positive way.)
That statement old? It is so old as to no-longer be valid. During their tests, yes, the 9mm was lacking. With several generations of ammunition being developed, this is no-longer quite the case. One can go to ATK's website and see it penetrating just as deeply, and expanding just as nicely, as the 357SIG. Which is to say, sometimes more, sometimes less, but it meets the 12" minimum through all 8 FBI tests.
The data was young enough that the bullets in question were Hydra-Shoks.
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