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Old 10-10-2012, 13:54   #298
douggmc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
First mistake… health care is not a right it’s a privilege.
Privilege or not ... is irrelevant. People WILL get healthcare whether they want it or not. Are you, an uninsured person, going to object to treatment when unconscious and in a coma from your stroke? Even if you were conscious, they wouldn't listen to you. It is entirely disconnected from their ability to pay or whether they are insured or not. It has always been that way (in modern U.S. / West) and WILL always be that way ... regardless of Obamacare existing or not. YOU CANNOT DISPUTE THIS

With that said, these costs WILL be incurred by healthcare providers and they WILL be passed on to ME. The ONLY pragmatic approach is ... How do we mitigate this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
Who should pay you ask. The person using the service. If you don’t pay the bill you get sued.
You can't collect money where money doesn't exist. Doesn't matter how you feel or wish. Pragmatism vs ideology.

So ...there are two types of people that are uninsured:
1) The person that has the money to pay for it, but chooses not to
or
2) The person that does not have the money to pay for it (and obviously doesn't).

In both cases, they WILL both incur medical costs at some point. You can sue someone for 500,000 of healthcare costs, but it won't ever be collected. The person in scenario 2 is a no win for us. They can't afford insurance and will incur costs, they mostly will be too poor to be penalized by Obamacare. They are a wash regardless (always have been) However, even the average person in scenario 1 above, doesn't have the ability to pay a 500,000 hospital bill. What is the average net worth of middle class American? Even if sued, bankruptcy laws protect primary assets like homes. Therefore, the costs will be passed on to ME (again). How to mitigate this .... the mandate. Those that make bad decision to not insure themselves EVEN though they can, have to pay a tax penalty to mitigate costs. That keeps person in scenario 1 from infringing on my (and society at large) rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
It should work just like any other product or service works.
Healthcare is not like any other product or service ... no matter how much you want it to be or say it. I've outlined this logic in both my responses to you at this point. It is not complicated. EVERYBODY WILL GET MEDICAL CARE. Accept it ... and lets move on and get a plan to mitigate the costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
However, the bleeding heart liberals are mandating that the working people once again pay for the lame and lazy by mandating health care and levying a tax if you don’t have it. Are those that can’t pay for it being forced to pay or be taxed? NO! And that is the only reason for Obomacare… so the rest of us can pay for those that don’t pay.
YOU WERE PAYING FOR IT ANYWAY ... BEFORE OBAMACARE! Don't you get it? The only difference is ... without Obamacare, there are vast majorities of people who are getting healthcare at the time and place that is the most expensive and most costly. At MY expense! The mandate effectively says ... "you can't do that. You can't make a decision (not to be insured)because you are impacting other people (infringing on their rights)." If, hypothetically, it was a decision that ONLY impacted that individual choosing not to be insured, then go for it. But it doesn't. This should smack you virtually right up side the head. It is right up your alley ... "lame and lazy" folks forcing their will on us responsible folks by making us pay their bills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
Now before you reply read this. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/ellis1.html it’s quite lengthy but you REALLY need to read it. The Federal Government has no business giving out or mandating charity. But the liberals just love their free stuff that others have to pay for.
I don't listen to people who make a living out making everything an ideological battle and a controversy. They are a LARGE part of the problem ... not a solution. Bill O'Reilly said it best the other day:

"You can make a lot of money by being an assassin," he said. "It doesn't matter: right wing or left wing. You go in and you're a hater -- radio, cable, in print, whatever -- you can get paid. And there's a people who do that. And they go in, they don't even believe half the stuff they say. ... Capitalism drives that. There are people -- Americans -- who want to hear hate."

That is what Lew Rockwell is. He is a right wing radio shock jock. Same as Rush, same as Boortz, same as Hannity, same as Beck, and so on (there are others on left too).

Get back to me with your own thoughts.

Last edited by douggmc; 10-10-2012 at 14:01..
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