Originally Posted by Tazz10m
Long ago i called Winchester and talked to their guys in charge of which bullets/loads get put in their product line, and they acted so damned corporately politically correct and hypocritical i wanted to puke. I was disgusted. And i told them i wasn't happy with their response at all. They actually talked about the news media response to the bullets, etc. They wouldn't even allow the 200 grainers to be put on the market for reloaders to use for hunting purposes. At the time i talked to them they had completely pulled the "Talon" product line except for "law enforcement" agencies. Then, low and behold, about a year later they come out with a "personal defense" load without the black color lube on the bullets and the new "Ranger" name.
I just checked, they don't have any of the "Ranger" bullets available for reloading. They don't even offer them for personal defense ammo in 10mm, oh, but they offer the 165 and 180 grain for 40 S&W. Obviously they are just playing the numbers game and only making and selling what they can make and sell a crap load of.
180 grain, i think, is a great weight for a bullet... even for hunting. I'm not sure what they would do at hunting velocites, like jacket separation, but, i think it would be worth it to buy them in 40, pull the bullets, and pump them up and test them. There must be somebody that already has. Same thing goes with the 200 grainer old Black Talons... which i have several boxes i got a long time ago CHEAP... hehehe.... Anyway, if the jackets do separate at the higher velocities it would be pretty easy to do a little "crimping" toward the rear of the bullet with a center punch and a home made "10mm cradle anvil" (to prevent the bullet from deforming out of round) and clinch that jacket to the lead.
Another, probably better alternative would be to skip Winchester all together and try to get a company like Barnes to make a all copper bullet with "talons". The way to do that is for a whole bunch of us to get together and continuously beg them. Hey, "customer demand" works... let me tell you... hahaha...
Another alternative is to get a metal lathe and lathe out the copper bullets with the "talons" sticking straight forward, then form the talons by "press curling" them into the hollow cavity ourselves. It would be a bit labor intensive, but, it would be fun and we would have them. And once the tooling was made, etc., it would be a pretty quick and easy operation to keep making them.
I would love to put together all the guys in The 10 Ring that have home shops and all work together to make whatever we want. If there's a will... there's a way.