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Old 12-03-2012, 13:35   #44
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Originally Posted by ArrowJ View Post
I apologize. Which part in particular do you want me to discuss further?
None I guess I just thought you wanted to discuss since you asked for it. I assume we either agree or agree to disagree if you have not points to make.

I suspect this is the crux of the matter. I think there should be as few of these as possible, including many that already exist. I suspect you do not feel this way. Perhaps I am wrong.
In regards to business you are. And I don't mean that to be condescending. Look at the history of business and industry in this nation alone. Without regulations and standards on what employees deserve or can expect we had 12 year olds dying in coal mines, women working for next to nothing, zero employee benefits. Without standards there'd be no minimum wage. Look at how pathetic the minimum wage is now. There must be standards and regulations otherwise the majority of business owners would absolutely exploit the work force. It's a double edged sword of course. You take it too far and you have union nut jobs demanding $50.00 an hour wage standards for unskilled labor with 4 day work weeks and 30 minute breaks every 30 minutes. So it's a balancing act for sure. But we cannot view business standards through libertarian goggles. Not in a system where it's profitable to take advantage of people.

Again, YOU want to choose what the employer should provide. The employer is not doing the employee a favor by giving him a job. He opens a business, offers to employ you, and offers extra benefits as compensation for the work you do. If you are not happy with his offer you are free to say no and find something you think is more equal with your value.
I didn't choose anything. The government has set this standard. To take religious issue with one or more is pointless. And it can't be allowed to set a precedent. If it does then it won't be long before employers refuse to offer any medical benefits to employees due to religious objects.

the other has reasons based either on moral values based on something else (common good, natural law, whatever).
This is your assumption. To me... birth control is no different than Advil. It's a personal care product. It has no morality issue attached to it. Why shouldn't it be included with medical benefits? ESPECIALLY when pregnancy can and does effect work conditions. The only side making it about ideals and morals and values are the religious. Because it has to do with sex. And religious people love trying to restrict, or condition, or direct people in how and when they have sex. If birth control becomes a standard for employee benefits then it just is what it is. If the owners of Hobby Lobby have such a moral objection to it... let them fold up shop.

At the end of the day it is one group of people's reasoning against another.
But not both groups are making it about morality.

I suspect that at the end of the day I prefer more liberty and you prefer more common good or whatever (which is another discussion.
It's possible, but you simply need to try and understand how badly employees would be treated if we had absolute liberty in regards to employment standards. It is profitable to pay your employees as little as possible. It's profitable to discriminate. It's profitable to only hire men because they don't get pregnant and want maternity leave. It's profitable to not maintain your safety equipment. It's profitable to use child labor. You see where I'm going? This is a new standard set by the government. I don't really see the issue. But if it's simply a religious issue then the owners of HL can go jump off a bridge for all I care.
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