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Old 01-17-2013, 14:36   #41
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,946
Originally Posted by Car 2217 View Post

exchanged gunfire

“….in the event that an individual, or a person under protection of the individual, is in immediate danger of loss of life or immediate danger of grave bodily injury, it shall be an affirmative defense that the use of deadly force by the individual is justified.”
There you go.

To that (in some states) is added that the individual must attempt to flee (disengage) unless that action would place the individual or the person under protection of the individual in even greater danger.
Not in Texas (or Kentucky, or Florida, etc.).

And somewhere in the statutes it will say something like “…once the threat has ended, the affirmative defense has also ended”.

Note that the statute speaks of 'Affirmative Defense', not the 'Right' to use Deadly Force. There is a world of difference.

Anyway, in the case of the two good guys who popped the crook, what they did was illegal because they were in no danger of immediate loss of life or grave bodily injury and, since the crook fled the scene without harming the victim, the victim wasn’t either. (Still, I hope that if a LEO discovers their identity he has the good sense to ‘misplace the paperwork’.)
Without going into a Texas law research project - many states allow deadly force to prevent any felony involving the use of force - here, for example, you can kill a purse snatcher who is unarmed. Same goes for a person who punches a school volunteer or bus driver. All felonies involving the use of force. In addition, our courts say that "robbery" includes the escape with the goods, so that deadly force could still be used to stop the robbery even where the robber was fleeing.

Next, the justification is usually decided at the point force is used. For example, in many places you can use non-deadly force to take back your property or someone else's (as here in KY). If you try to lawfully take back your property and the thief or robber then threatens you with deadly force ("exchanged gunfire") you can use deadly force in self-defense.

Then, of course, texas is the one state that allows you to kill a thief, under some conditions, while he is fleeing.

I think there is a pretty good chance these guys would be justified.
Anti-gun liberals can only call us idiots; it takes an idiot with a gun to prove them right.
- Me, 2014.

Last edited by Bren; 01-17-2013 at 14:37..
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