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Old 02-09-2013, 10:22   #40
RussP
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
You do, you believe that very strongly. So what value would you give any answer I made? None...so no need to respond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorsharp View Post
But you have no problem with posing questions for me. Personally, I'm glad you are not answering, because it is becoming tedious to jump through the hoops you set up.
So you do not disagree that regardless of any rational, logical, factual answer I would provide, you would give it no value. Thanks for proving my point.

The answer to your original question is, unfortunately, yes. The problem exists as it does in many other professions. Coworkers cover for each others mistakes. People use authority to cover mistakes. People use professional status to cover their and others mistakes.

The more public the profession, the more distinct the profession, the more limited the number in the profession, the more exaggerated the claims of abuse become. Publicity in the media and the repetition of those reports on social media, including blogs, news collecting sites, agenda driven sites, all contribute to this exaggeration. One incident recited a thousand times becomes multiple events to many who do not take the time to research and learn that there really was just one event.

I don't imagine you talk to too many in law enforcement about this "Blue Wall" thing. If they trust you enough to talk, the conversation would be enlightening.

Okay, there's your answer. Now, lets get back to the tedious jumping through the hoops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorsharp View Post
Distrct Attorneys/Prosecutors are members of the law enforcement family.
True, and we know that cases can be presented to inquest juries, grand juries, in ways and manners to elicit a desired outcome. It's true. I've witnessed it happen.

Did you read about the disagreement within the inquest jury? That is in your linked article. Here is more about the jury. Jurors chosen in inquest into fatal shooting of woodcarver.

What's interesting here is the judge ruled that the jury would not be told that the department had ruled the shooting unjustified and the police chief had ordered Birk to turn in his badge and weapon.

Here is a detailed list of the jurors responses to questions put to them.
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Quote:
1. On August 20, 2010, did Seattle Police Officer Ian Birk observe John T. Williams crossing the street? Yes 8

2. Was John T. Williams holding an open knife at the time he was first observed by Officer Birk? Yes 8

3. Did Officer Birk get out of his patrol car to contact John T. Williams? Yes 8

4. Did Officer Birk gesture to John T. Williams to come back to Officer Birk's location? Yes 7 Unknown 1

5. Did John T. Williams have a knife in his hand when Officer Birk contacted him? Yes 8

6. Did Officer Birk order John T. Williams to put the knife down? Yes 8

If your answer to question 6 was yes, please answer the following four questions:

6a: Did Officer Birk order John T. Williams to put the knife down more than once? Yes 8

6b: Did John T. Williams have sufficient time to put the knife down after Officer Birk's order? Yes 1, No 4, Unknown 3

6c: Did John T. Williams try to put the knife down after Officer Birk's order? Unknown 8

6d: Did John T. Williams put the knife down before Officer Birk began to fire his weapon? No 8

7. Was the front of John T. Williams' upper body partially turned towards Officer Birk when Officer Birk began to fire his weapon? Yes 2, No 5, Unknown 1

7a: If no, was John T. Williams turning towards Officer Birk when Officer Birk fired his weapon? Yes 5

8. Did Officer Birk fire his weapon at John T. Williams on August 30, 2010? Yes 8

9. When Officer Birk fired his weapon, did John T. Williams have a knife in his hand? Yes 8

9a. If yes, was John T. Williams' knife blade open when Officer Birk fired his weapon? No 4, Unknown 4

10. Did Officer Birk believe that John T. Williams posed an imminent threat of serious physical harm to Officer Birk at the time Officer Birk fired his weapon? Yes 4, Unknown 4

11. Based on the information available at the time Officer Birk fired his weapon, did John T. Williams then pose an imminent threat of serious physical harm to Officer Birk? Yes 1, No 4, Unknown 3

12. Did John T. Williams die in King County, Washington on Aug. 30, 2010? Yes 8

13. Did John T. Williams die from the gunshot wounds caused by Officer Birk? Yes 8
The prosecutor "felt" that the inquest jury's opinion reflected the opinion a trial jury would have. Was he right? Maybe...maybe not, depending on whom you are listening to.

Do I think he should have been tried in a court of his peers? I do not know. I didn't sit in the inquest hearing room listening to all the testimony. I know from personal experience that news reports are hardly repositories of the actual facts of courtroom proceedings, so what is presented by the media is suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorsharp View Post
No, you want to use ratios to make your case that warrant service errors are rare. So, I am going to use the same criteria to make my case. Automobiles are used millions of times per day. Using a ratio of fatalities/times used, you could make the case that auto fatalities are rare.
Yes, I do want to focus exclusively on what you challenged. Good, you know how to do the math for automobiles. Apply that to warrant service errors.Thanks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorsharp View Post
Furthermore, I went back to see how we got on this discussion. It all started when I said that there were "many instances" of warrant service errors, and JBnTx said that warrant service errors were "extremely rare".
Which you challenged with...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorsharp View Post
I could go on, but I believe you get the point. It ain't "extremely rare".
...your challenge continuing that specific path of discussion.
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