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Old 05-16-2013, 22:34   #162
Fred Hansen
Liberal Bane
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,218
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
I'm not defending any member of the administration. For me, the problems are all "left of the line". What all led up to that tragic event? Once it occurred, it was too late. I am coming at this from 20+ years of combat arms experience and 3 combat tours. I think I understand this stuff better than the average person. I have lived life when the rifle range is open in both directions. So I don't need a sermon from anyone about not leaving Soldiers, Americans, etc. behind. I understand those principles with crystal clear clarity.

I'll put a large ground unit availability into perspective. Let's pretend there was a BCT in Germany that was pulling the GRF OCONUS mission (there wasn't one). Lets also assume they were alerted to deploy within minutes of this happening. GRF units are on a deployment sequence that extends beyond a day (I'm not going to post specifics). That means the first units would have been wheels up from Germany well after a day from being notified. now they have to fly to Libya, land, assemble, and deploy. You honestly think they were going to make a difference? This things was over.

Let's pretend a Ranger unit from the east coast was alerted to deploy from the states. They are on a much shorter deployment sequence but they are not wheels up until much later than you probably think. You think they were going to make a difference? At best, they are stepping off a plane in Libya after a full 24 hours has passed from notification to deploy. Again, they have to assemble and then move. You think they were going to make a difference? The event was over.

You think 4 SF guys were going to make a difference? If reality was suspended and no friction occurred, they might have had a chance to arrive while hostilities were occurring. However, they would have been severely lacking equipment and ammunition considering why they were in the country to begin with. I suspect if a commander was given the option to deploy them, they quickly determined that based off of information available, those 4 great Americans would not influence the situation and would in all likelihood become casualties themselves.

So again, when Sec Gates said people have a cartoonish view of military capabilities, he is right. I don't care if 'ole Saint Nock and his 12 Reindeer are President. It doesn't change the fact that we can't beam units into combat. Once it went south in Libya, those guys were ****ed. That's the simple, ugly reality of it.

So I'll say it again. I think things that occurred left of the line should be looked at and not what the woulda, coulda, shouda fantasy military capabilities that people seem to think we have.
Nice of you to go off on a 7 paragraph tangent, but the point of my post was that there were fully trained personnel on site complete with a laser, and the communication gear who begged for air support for 5+ hours.

Comrade Zero had no problem killing 25 Navy SEALs +13 others in a single Chinook crash in Kablamistan, had no problem using our jets and weapons to destabilize Libya, and make it ripe for the Muslim brotherhood picking, but somehow this tiny band of peaceful Muslim protesters are deemed invulnerable to every weapon in our arsenal.

As I said, good thing 1st Lt O'Bannon didn't have a POS like Comrade Zero as CinC.
When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. - George Santayana
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