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Old 03-27-2010, 13:43   #1
emt1581
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What happens when the hand-outs stop?

Obama has been doing a cracker-jack job of giving out at much money to the lower socio-economic classes as possible. This is most likely to secure his re-election. I'm curious what happens when it's no longer possible to give those people as much or any "free" money? They don't seem to do so well once you take away their gubmint cheese.

I'm thinking something has to be done whether for the better or worse of those people but what's the next logical (I really hesitate to use that word with this administration!) step after the middle class is eliminated or severely downsized?

Did anyone else hear the clip played on one of the news shows about "Obama money"? This woman, of a certain lower socio-economic standpoint, is talking to a reporter about the "Obama money" she's getting. She's hootin and hollarin and celebrating about the free money. When asked where that money comes from she says "Obama...it's Obama money". When asked we Obama got the money from the woman goes "pshhh...his stash!".


So we go deeper into debt as if the national debt doesn't really exist? Do we just tell the bottom-feeders to go pound sand and get a job? Is there some other option I'm not thinking of?

Why is this in the survival forum? Well I'm going to throw a shot in the dark here and say that once anything extreme happens that has the potential to piss off a few million ghetto dwellers, things might get less than civil for the rest of society in an effort to exact some measure of revenge or equalize themselves with those more fortunate/hard working.

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks!

-Emt1581
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Old 03-27-2010, 14:00   #2
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Well, a few things to consider:

#1 Capitalism will self destruct. There are NO well balanced economic systems. These things emerged/developed. They were not designed/made. The reality of the universe is this. Poverty breeds poverty, and excess breeds excess. The rich WILL continue to accumulate wealth, and more and more will have less and less. Nature of the beast. It's not republican/democrat - it's human, it's greed.

#2 The level of lifestyle that the large middle class in this country enjoys is fundamentally unsustainable. We did that to ourselves. You can see the growth of imaginary economic prosperity throughout the 60's, right through the 70's, up to today. That will collapse and be eaten away. You'll go either up to the rich end, or down to the poor end. How rich are you REALLY? What skill and value do you have REALLY. every person over-estimates themselves to amazing degree's IMO.

#3 EVERY society has eventually came to a point where poor masses have ravaged a rich minority (a couple of exceptions - but very different cultures. And they are on their way there.

I always find it funny though - as a "middle class struggling person" you are probably wealthier than 90% of the worlds population. The poor in this country have no idea how poor they are not.

I think it's sad that we have some of the problems we do. There is no reason that a large number of basic health services aren't provided gratis just for being a tax paying citizen. Incredibly brilliant children who want to do good things for society and mankind can't afford an education, while rich dooshes go to harvard with one intention: Getting richer. And they already grew up with way more than any 10 people could want. I think that it is unbelievably tragic that children go without food and clothes in this country. But they do. There are a lot of ways to solve those issues. And you can do it without becoming a "welfare" state, or encouraging people to do nothing.

But the people that make those decisions are wealthy, and their number one goal is to stay that way, and they are paid to make laws that keep money for even wealthier people. You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope. But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.

We made wealth and material things the most important thing on the planet - now sit back and enjoy. we have lost touch with the difference between success and excess - and it's going to bite us.

And I don't know you EMT - but like I said; You are worried about the poor masses coming for you? You need to worry about the wealthy and powerful who exist to make YOU part of the poor masses.
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:48   #3
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Well, a few things to consider:

#1 Capitalism will self destruct. There are NO well balanced economic systems. These things emerged/developed. They were not designed/made. The reality of the universe is this. Poverty breeds poverty, and excess breeds excess. The rich WILL continue to accumulate wealth, and more and more will have less and less. Nature of the beast. It's not republican/democrat - it's human, it's greed.

Please, just turn your computer off and walk away. Just please.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:53   #4
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Please, just turn your computer off and walk away. Just please.
Hey - I apologize man. I'm sorry if I said something to make you believe that Santa Claus doesn't exist. The easter bunny is real - seriously. Let me rephrase:

Capitalism is the BEST MOST AWESOME SYSTEM IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE BLESSED BY GOD HIMSELF PERSONALLY ON THE MONEY! I don't know why I even said anything to the contrary.

***Read on ONLY if you want to wake up and have a shot of reality
There are no pure systems. We are not a democracy - we are a representational bureaucratic republic. That little phrase has serious implications for how our little world REALLY works. And we are not a capitalist economy. We are some cobbled together pseudo version of it. and that has serious implications for things to.

It's all about balance. Doesn't matter if you have a King, a czar, a dictator, or whatever. and it doesn't matter if you are a complete communist, socialist, or capitalist system. Lose your balance and it will run into the ground. Some of these things are inherently more stable than others - but none of them operate like they should because people dick with them in bad ways. And ours is starting to push the limits of sensible operation.

We set a system up that promotes and encourages the accumulation of as much as possible. and that is what the winners will do. And nobody - I repeat nobody - sitting here typing on this thing is going to be on the list of invitees to the winners club. seriously....are any of us in the top 2% of income?

Because if you are there - your wealth keeps growing. and you can afford to pay the repubs, dems, libertarians, or tea party what it takes to let you accumulate even more.

and that amazing large lazy looking for a handout group is way small. and lazy. It's the work their ass off people who work more and more for less and less all the time that you need to worry about. I think that's most of us.

Last edited by Aceman; 03-28-2010 at 08:55..
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:21   #5
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Hey - I apologize man. I'm sorry if I said something to make you believe that Santa Claus doesn't exist. The easter bunny is real - seriously. Let me rephrase:

Capitalism is the BEST MOST AWESOME SYSTEM IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE BLESSED BY GOD HIMSELF PERSONALLY ON THE MONEY! I don't know why I even said anything to the contrary.

***Read on ONLY if you want to wake up and have a shot of reality
There are no pure systems. We are not a democracy - we are a representational bureaucratic republic. That little phrase has serious implications for how our little world REALLY works. And we are not a capitalist economy. We are some cobbled together pseudo version of it. and that has serious implications for things to.

It's all about balance. Doesn't matter if you have a King, a czar, a dictator, or whatever. and it doesn't matter if you are a complete communist, socialist, or capitalist system. Lose your balance and it will run into the ground. Some of these things are inherently more stable than others - but none of them operate like they should because people dick with them in bad ways. And ours is starting to push the limits of sensible operation.

We set a system up that promotes and encourages the accumulation of as much as possible. and that is what the winners will do. And nobody - I repeat nobody - sitting here typing on this thing is going to be on the list of invitees to the winners club. seriously....are any of us in the top 2% of income?

Because if you are there - your wealth keeps growing. and you can afford to pay the repubs, dems, libertarians, or tea party what it takes to let you accumulate even more.

and that amazing large lazy looking for a handout group is way small. and lazy. It's the work their ass off people who work more and more for less and less all the time that you need to worry about. I think that's most of us.
Not sure who asserts capitalism is the perfect system. That's just silly. Any system out there today is flawed.

However there are countless examples of those 'work their ass off' folks achieving wealth. There is no guarantee, but there is an opportunity. The issue that folks are concerned with is imposing a system that inhibits or even removes this opportunity. And worse yet, a system that rewards you for not even trying.

How does Obamacare fall into this category? It continues to impose taxes on those evil large corporations. Personally, I don't think Obamacare was every really aimed at solving health care issues. Instead, I think it has the same goal as the stimulus package, cap & trade, amnesty, etc. It is aimed at destroying capitalism. It's really not a mystery. Barrack and Michele has long expressed a disgust about capitalism.

However, we are a democratic republic. That means that we (the people) ought to have the ability to change or eliminate the laws that we believe are wrong. Unfortunately, the last election showed that the people can be compromised with voter fraud. Once distrust in the electoral process becomes the norm, we are in serious trouble.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:31   #6
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Not sure who asserts capitalism is the perfect system. That's just silly. Any system out there today is flawed.

However there are countless examples of those 'work their ass off' folks achieving wealth. There is no guarantee, but there is an opportunity. The issue that folks are concerned with is imposing a system that inhibits or even removes this opportunity. And worse yet, a system that rewards you for not even trying.

How does Obamacare fall into this category? It continues to impose taxes on those evil large corporations. Personally, I don't think Obamacare was every really aimed at solving health care issues. Instead, I think it has the same goal as the stimulus package, cap & trade, amnesty, etc. It is aimed at destroying capitalism. It's really not a mystery. Barrack and Michele has long expressed a disgust about capitalism.

However, we are a democratic republic. That means that we (the people) ought to have the ability to change or eliminate the laws that we believe are wrong. Unfortunately, the last election showed that the people can be compromised with voter fraud. Once distrust in the electoral process becomes the norm, we are in serious trouble.
Capitalism is not perfect but it is one of opportunity. People can achieve but they have to participate and there is no guarantee of outcome. However, government has nothing to do with it in a pure capitalist system, it's all you. Name any other economic system that works like that.

Barack and Michelle hate capitalism but they sure enjoy the trappings of it, don't they? Private jets, shopping in Paris and closing down a whole store for a private spree, fancy clothes, $550 sneakers, fine dining, etc. I also didn't hear Michelle complaining about making $200k a year being on an advisory board for a local Chicago healthcare company... the same one that lobbied her husband when he was a State Senator.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:46   #7
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Some good points, but some flawed stuff (IMO)

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Not sure who asserts capitalism is the perfect system. That's just silly. Any system out there today is flawed.
- What I'm saying is that we are seeing things that are happening BECAUSE capitalism has run amuck. Healthcare - at the end of the day, why is it so expensive? Lot's of reasons. But a huge reason is that Insurance companies make IMMENSE profit by being allowed to deny service to those who paid for that very service. Lot's of other very important reasons - but that is one. No CEO of an insurance company made less money than last year. But less people got served, and more people went without. I have a friend who pays ALL of his medical costs with a huge deductible and got his rates raised by 50%. He was doing preventative maintenance on his dime. This guy can afford a lot of health care. But at some point even he's going to break. The "market is broken because of collusion in these industries: Insurance, Medicine, Law. That's not capitalim - that's controlling the market. and that causes problems.

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However there are countless examples of those 'work their ass off' folks achieving wealth. There is no guarantee, but there is an opportunity.
- You only hear about the successes. Those are big and flashy and easy to cite. But the number of failures is large (it always would be anyway...) and it grows. Microsoft PAYS the government to be allowed to unethically, and illegally run a monopoly. It destroys competition and we all pay. Independent programmers can't succeed.

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And worse yet, a system that rewards you for not even trying.
- This is not a reasonable argument on my part, just saying...Have you spent time seeing people "not trying" because the rewards are soooo big that it's just not worth it. I spent time unemployed last year - and my wife. Believe me. Unemployment wasn't a good thing!

And I have been in jobs that have brought me in contact with people busting their ass and not getting by, let alone getting ahead. And they weren't a bunch of 5 baby don't know who the daddy is spending foodstamps on beer and cigarettes people. Those exist. But it's 10%, not 90%.

Quote:
Personally, I don't think Obamacare was every really aimed at solving health care issues. It is aimed at destroying capitalism.
- Obama woke up one day and said "BwahahAhaHahHa - let's destroy capitalism!" Let's be real. No president ever woke up and said that. But they end up doing some dumbass things for I don't know why.

Total agreement that the current plan won't do jack. And it's Pelosi care, really. If it works - Obama claims the win. If it fails, "It was Pelosi's responsibity" Brilliant politically!!!! But I agree the best thing he could do (besides get focussed on Jobs) is stand up and say this is BS - VETO.

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However, we are a democratic republic. That means that we (the people) ought to have the ability to change or eliminate the laws that we believe are wrong.
Really? I see things voted for by "our representatives" all the time that we believe are wrong. That's the difference between theory and application. Companies/wealthy pay for what THEY want. Legislators vote for what THEY believe. YOU can't change anything. In fact - they can PICK a president regardless of who we all vote for.

So either we have a very different system working here, or the basis of your statements is wrong - because things would be going on differently.

You can quote the thoery all you want - but the evidence of what the people want vs what happens suggests the thoery is not even in operation anymore. But as long as people buy into it in any way...we are toast.
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Old 03-28-2010, 18:56   #8
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Capitalism has failed
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And we are not a capitalist economy. We are some cobbled together pseudo version of it.
So, how can it have failed if that's not what we were doing? And I agree, that's not what we've been doing. The reason you'll never see a perfect system is because there are no perfect people. What we started with worked for a while and even though it wasn't perfect I'd sure like to go back to it. OK, enough threadjacking.

So yeah, bad things man...
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Old 12-28-2010, 20:40   #9
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Please, just turn your computer off and walk away. Just please.


actually aceman needs to read your avatar
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Old 04-29-2010, 20:43   #10
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Well, a few things to consider:

You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope. But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.

s.
Yeahhhh....right.....

I bet the CEO's of the real companies out there worked their butts off, 16 hr days, really pushed themselves hard. I think they deserve it, if they have the brains and work hard at it. It's no one's business to say what they should make.

Whiners just want it handed to them...and are envious of those that work for what they have.
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Old 04-29-2010, 21:01   #11
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Yeahhhh....right.....

I bet the CEO's of the real companies out there worked their butts off, 16 hr days, really pushed themselves hard. I think they deserve it, if they have the brains and work hard at it. It's no one's business to say what they should make.

Whiners just want it handed to them...and are envious of those that work for what they have.
I'm not sure what the argument was initially, but of the companies I've worked for, only ONE had administrators that actually worked hard to get where they were. The rest were the Bill Lumburgs of their respective company that had little or no experience working up the chain and since they had connections and the right degrees...got handed the job.

I used to work on the assembly line at Binney & Smith (Crayola). Few people spoke english, it was stressful and boring at the same time, and we were given a number of pieces to make each day (rate). I never understood why the other workers worked so hard to make that number. It was a sort of goal for them because they had nothing else to look forward to. They weren't punished/replaced if they didn't make rate and they weren't rewarded for making it either. It was just a number to work towards. Most upper management people I know would look at that and laugh....but to the "little" people on the line, that was their goal for the day.

You ever see that show where the CEO's of the company go undercover as entry level workers in their company (Undercover Boss I think it's called)....the very idea of such a thing is a joke!...That's why it's considered entertainment and they made a tv show about it!!

-Emt1581
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Old 04-29-2010, 21:15   #12
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I'm not sure what the argument was initially, but of the companies I've worked for, only ONE had administrators that actually worked hard to get where they were. The rest were the Bill Lumburgs of their respective company that had little or no experience working up the chain and since they had connections and the right degrees...got handed the job.

I used to work on the assembly line at Binney & Smith (Crayola). Few people spoke english, it was stressful and boring at the same time, and we were given a number of pieces to make each day (rate). I never understood why the other workers worked so hard to make that number. It was a sort of goal for them because they had nothing else to look forward to. They weren't punished/replaced if they didn't make rate and they weren't rewarded for making it either. It was just a number to work towards. Most upper management people I know would look at that and laugh....but to the "little" people on the line, that was their goal for the day.

You ever see that show where the CEO's of the company go undercover as entry level workers in their company (Undercover Boss I think it's called)....the very idea of such a thing is a joke!...That's why it's considered entertainment and they made a tv show about it!!

-Emt1581
Midcap Public Company, High growth:

I was sitting next to a young SVP at dinner one night. We were making the usual business smalltalk and it spilled into family discussion. I asked him when was the last time he had dinner at home with his family. He thought a while and replied, "Can't remember. It has been weeks."

This guy had been either traveling on business or in business dinners 7 nights a week for several weeks. That may not sound like a big deal, until you live that life for a while.

His compensation package at the time was a few million $ / year. He is CEO now. The ONLY time away from work was when he went home to his native continent.
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Old 04-29-2010, 21:21   #13
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Midcap Public Company, High growth:

I was sitting next to a young SVP at dinner one night. We were making the usual business smalltalk and it spilled into family discussion. I asked him when was the last time he had dinner at home with his family. He thought a while and replied, "Can't remember. It has been weeks."

This guy had been either traveling on business or in business dinners 7 nights a week for several weeks. That may not sound like a big deal, until you live that life for a while.

His compensation package at the time was a few million $ / year. He is CEO now. The ONLY time away from work was when he went home to his native continent.
That's a lifestyle choice though.

If one values money/job more than family, that's a lifestyle choice not a massive sacrifice that should be admired.

Personally, I value my family more than any job. Otherwise I'd be sitting pretty with an action packed federal LE job. Now that's me. For others, such as the ones you mentioned it's the business meetings for breakfast lunch and dinner, being on call 24/7 and making million/billion dollar deals.

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Old 04-29-2010, 20:50   #14
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You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope. But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.
Typically, yes. They do work harder than the rank and file of a company. Typically, they sacrifice most everything else in life to obtain their position. Their life is work 24 hours a day whether at the office or not. I would not want that for any amount of money.

They are also fairly difficult to replace as a percentage of the U.S. workforce.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:33   #15
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Typically, yes. They do work harder than the rank and file of a company. Typically, they sacrifice most everything else in life to obtain their position. Their life is work 24 hours a day whether at the office or not. I would not want that for any amount of money.

They are also fairly difficult to replace as a percentage of the U.S. workforce.
I work to live; I don't live to work. Someone who lives to work may have a skillset that guides a company to financial success, but they aren't healthy people as individuals, and thats what makes a quality person, in my mind. I have one of those live for work types for a father. Great guy, worked his way up from poverty and being orphaned at the age of 5. Not such a great dad or family member on many levels.

Those types are "Cats in the Craddle" personified.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:24   #16
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Maybe it is just early ......but that is the best composed answer I've read in a long time.




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Well, a few things to consider:

#1 Capitalism will self destruct. There are NO well balanced economic systems. These things emerged/developed. They were not designed/made. The reality of the universe is this. Poverty breeds poverty, and excess breeds excess. The rich WILL continue to accumulate wealth, and more and more will have less and less. Nature of the beast. It's not republican/democrat - it's human, it's greed.

#2 The level of lifestyle that the large middle class in this country enjoys is fundamentally unsustainable. We did that to ourselves. You can see the growth of imaginary economic prosperity throughout the 60's, right through the 70's, up to today. That will collapse and be eaten away. You'll go either up to the rich end, or down to the poor end. How rich are you REALLY? What skill and value do you have REALLY. every person over-estimates themselves to amazing degree's IMO.

#3 EVERY society has eventually came to a point where poor masses have ravaged a rich minority (a couple of exceptions - but very different cultures. And they are on their way there.

I always find it funny though - as a "middle class struggling person" you are probably wealthier than 90% of the worlds population. The poor in this country have no idea how poor they are not.

I think it's sad that we have some of the problems we do. There is no reason that a large number of basic health services aren't provided gratis just for being a tax paying citizen. Incredibly brilliant children who want to do good things for society and mankind can't afford an education, while rich dooshes go to harvard with one intention: Getting richer. And they already grew up with way more than any 10 people could want. I think that it is unbelievably tragic that children go without food and clothes in this country. But they do. There are a lot of ways to solve those issues. And you can do it without becoming a "welfare" state, or encouraging people to do nothing.

But the people that make those decisions are wealthy, and their number one goal is to stay that way, and they are paid to make laws that keep money for even wealthier people. You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope. But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.

We made wealth and material things the most important thing on the planet - now sit back and enjoy. we have lost touch with the difference between success and excess - and it's going to bite us.

And I don't know you EMT - but like I said; You are worried about the poor masses coming for you? You need to worry about the wealthy and powerful who exist to make YOU part of the poor masses.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:25   #17
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Its A L I V E !

Survival/Preparedness Forum
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Old 12-29-2010, 19:45   #18
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Its A L I V E !

Survival/Preparedness Forum

I made 50th Page!
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:08   #19
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Maybe it is just early ......but that is the best composed answer I've read in a long time.
It's one of the worst I've ever seen. Ignoramus maximus.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Aceman Survival/Preparedness Forum
Well, a few things to consider:

#1 Capitalism will self destruct.


Not necessarily. depends how we handle it.

There are NO well balanced economic systems.

Nor would there be. The imbalances correcting themselves cause the churn of activity that IS commerce. Just the same as if the temperatures and pressures were equal everywhere on Earth, there would be no wind or sea currents.

These things emerged/developed.

So?

They were not designed/made.

Relevance?

The reality of the universe is this. Poverty breeds poverty, and excess breeds excess.

Mindsets breed mindsets. Parents pass along to their children...well or ill...or do nothing at all.

The rich WILL continue to accumulate wealth, and more and more will have less and less. Nature of the beast.

Well, one true statement. this is actually Biblical. The poor will always be among us.

It amazes me why this concept amazes so many people. About the rich getting richer. What did you THINK they would do?

1. If you're rich, you have economy of scale. You can buy needs in bulk at a cheaper unit cost, so your cost of whatever activity, consuming, investing, is always less and you operate more efficiently. similarly,

2. If you have $100 in the bank (because you're poor) and make 5% interest, at the end of the year you have $105 dollars. You made 5 bucks in interest. If you are wealthier, and have one million dollars in the bank at 5% interest, you made $50,000 in interest. At some point of wealth, you can conceivably make more interest than your actual cost of living, it doenst get spent and your pile grows even larger.

Why does that amaze so many people? The rich got richer? Next you'll tell me there's gambling in the casino!

Similarly, if you have a poor mindset, make poor purchasing decisions, don't understand THRIFT, emulate other poor people around you, fail to absorb an education and constantly drown your misery in drugs, liquor, lottery tickets and other amusements you will remain POOR.

GUESS WHAT?! That is NOT a rich person's fault! No one held you back but YOU! It is NOT a zero sum game where your poverty is the result of someone else being wealthy...the two concepts function independently.

It just feels good to have someone else to blame. Scapegoat, anyone?

It's not republican/democrat

Duh.

- it's human, it's greed.

Greed is good. Actually its called enlightened self-interest. Do you have your worst interests at heart or your best?

Do you try to protect yourself or hurt yourself? Do you willingly pay more for something when you could pay less? No? Does that make you greedy?


#2 The level of lifestyle that the large middle class in this country enjoys is fundamentally unsustainable. We did that to ourselves.

No, it actually could be a lot BETTER if we had kept more of our own money with a less taxing government. If we go too far with our own finances we self destruct and are forced into bankruptcy. Therefore, we're self regulating.

The Fedgov OTOH just borrows and prints more and taxes more and keeps on chugging. The end result will still be default but they seem to extend the misery indefinitely and will just happen later.

You can see the growth of imaginary economic prosperity throughout the 60's, right through the 70's, up to today. That will collapse and be eaten away. You'll go either up to the rich end, or down to the poor end.

Einstein! see above.

How rich are you REALLY? What skill and value do you have REALLY. every person over-estimates themselves to amazing degree's IMO.

I'll settle for not being a net debtor. NEt positive financial worth, no spurious debt, live within my means, no wolves at the door.

#3 EVERY society has eventually came to a point where poor masses have ravaged a rich minority (a couple of exceptions - but very different cultures. And they are on their way there.

I always find it funny though - as a "middle class struggling person" you are probably wealthier than 90% of the worlds population. The poor in this country have no idea how poor they are not.

Wait, you're confusing us. Which is it? Unsustainable middle class, but we're actually wealthier? The poor get poorer, but they have no idea how poor they are not? So I guess our poor are not really poor, so its just middle class and wealthy. OK, so everything is ok in Whoville.

Actually, how we measure poor in this country creates the lie of so much poverty. You are technically poor in this country if you do not have cable tv or a dishwasher. Heck, that was how I grew up and we wern't poor! Not that I noticed anyway. I had clothes on my back, lived in a nice house and we had great schools. I was POOR?


I think it's sad that we have some of the problems we do.

You whine an awful lot Oh Melodramatic One. You have waaay too much time on your hands.

People cut their own deals. Get over it.

There is no reason that a large number of basic health services aren't provided gratis just for being a tax paying citizen.

Yes there is, Oh Socialist One.

Provided GRATIS? Who the HELL are YOU to demand something for FREE? A doctor goes to 10 years of college, med school and internship, has to buy pharma an med supplies, hire nurses, pay rent and malpractice insurance, but he has to stop what he's doing and treat you for nothing because you're resident here?

HEALTHCARE IS NOT A RIGHT. If it were, you could demand it at any time, at any place at any price...or no price at all. What gives you the right to commandeer private citizens and force them to render service?

Healthcare is about delivery....Hospitals, doctors, nurses, drugs. They cost money and no you may not have it for free for the asking. Pay the admission price like everyone else. The arrogance of it all!

Incredibly brilliant children who want to do good things for society and mankind can't afford an education,

There is NO ONE in this country who wants an education who can't have one. If you're brilliant, there's catalogues of scholarships available at the local library. Do you sit around inventing this fiction?

If you're so brilliant, you'll figure out a way to get to college. Personally, I held two jobs and went at night. There was no one holding me back. No one paid for it or gave me anything. It takes NOT being lazy.

Who suffers from this fictitious malady? I'll say you made this up out of whole cloth.


while rich dooshes go to harvard

That must be you. A real Harvard ******' would spell it properly.

with one intention: Getting richer.

You expect them to work themselves into poverty? And the problem with this is.....what?

Dad, I'm aspiring to poverty and a lack of success. I need to learn how to spell doosh! Can you pop open your wallet?

And they already grew up with way more than any 10 people could want.

Crass generalization. People of all stripes have gone to ivy league instittuions. You are predjudiced, bigoted, narrowminded and suffering from class envy.


I think that it is unbelievably tragic that children go without food and clothes in this country.

The few that do have their parents to blame. Its not society's fault. If you're really feeling guilty about the state of the world, go join the peace corp. That way you can actually make something good of yourself rather than just "feeling" sad like the "******" in the R Lee Ermy psychiatrist chair from the Geico commercial.


But they do.

A lot less than you'd imagine.

There are a lot of ways to solve those issues. And you can do it without becoming a "welfare" state, or encouraging people to do nothing.


Its called parents taking responsibility.

But the people that make those decisions are wealthy,

No, its negligent parents. Its not a zero sum game where the rich are wealthy at your expense. The rich make their decisions, and the poor make theirs.

For that matter, rich or poor has nothing to do with negligent parenting. There are wealthy people who are lousy parents too. But no one feels sorry their kids even though they suffer too.


and their number one goal is to stay that way, and they are paid to make laws that keep money for even wealthier people.

Nice little bucket your bigoted a## just put all those people in with your crass generalizations.

You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope.

He works smarter.

But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.

He did not get wealthy giving it all away. What did you expect? And unless this CEO FORCED you to give him your money, the transaction was VOLUNTARY.

We made wealth and material things the most important thing on the planet - now sit back and enjoy.

You assume far too much.

we have lost touch

Who's WE?

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:43   #20
bdcochran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,644
With Glock29 on this

Contrary to the article, I haven't "lost touch". I owe on my car - and that is it.

When you get old enough, you stop caring about whining, who is "gaming" the system, what others have, and concepts of entitlement. At that point you are concerned with making life pleasant, exercising, enjoying food and companionship.

I am not a victim.

If the general welfare checks stopped; if illegals were denied medical care because of status and lack of insurance, if public college tuitions were raised to cover the actual costs of providing a college education, people would find ways to cope.

Don't expect fairness in life. Don't think for a moment that one size fits all.

There are a lot of people in this country who have long term disabilities, mental problems, are illiterate, unable to cope or function. In fact most people go around on the verge of a nervous breakdown and play victim.

If you feel like helping, do so. I do. No matter what you ever do, what the government does, or what the neighbors might do, there will never be enough time, money or resouces to deal with all the problems.
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Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42