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Old 06-01-2011, 14:53   #1
nickE10mm
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Memorial Day Range Report - Fusion Hunter (pic heavy)

Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011
Location: SW Missouri, Table Rock Lake, our little corner of Mark Twain National Forest
Weather: Sunny, 81F, Heat Index 86F, Humidity 50%, Pressure 30.09, Altitude ~500ft, Time: 10:00am
Chronograph: Shooting Chrony Beta
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 1911, ramped 6" barrel, 10mm

While visiting family over this past Memorial weekend, I got a chance to run several loads over my chrono as part of my ongoing load workups to find the perfect whitetail, general field, target and defense loads. I tested a variety of handloads, reloads, bullet styles and powder types, as well as a few factory loads.

Chrono setup
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My home workbench
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My hunting-load factory
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My woods "work bench"
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Below are the results of my chrono tests. I actually skipped a couple of the loads since they were so close to a similar load already on the sheet, or simply due to time. The format of the data is: Weight/Bullet, Charge/Powder, Lowest Velocity, Highest Velocity, Average Velocity, Extreme Spread, Standard Deviation, Comments All tests are from five-shot strings.

Bullets: Hornady XTP, Remington Golden Saber (GS), Speer Gold Dot (GD), Suter's Lead Semi-Wadcutter (LSWC), Berry's plated hollowpoint, (Buffalo Bore Factory) Hardcast (HC), Winchester (SXT) Supreme Expansion Talon, (Doubletap's factory) Wide Flat Nosed (with Gas Check) WFNGC

Powders: Power Pistol, Accurate Arms #7, IMR-800X

155 XTP - 9.2 PP - n/a
155 XTP - 10.0 PP - 1338, 1375, 1353, :7.24, 15.29 - nice coyote / armadillo / varmint load
165 GS - 8.5 PP - 1209, 1239, 1219, 29.97, 14.17 - nice defense load
165 GD - 11.6gr AA7 - 1252, 1310, 1292, 57.80, 23.02 - my chosen defense load - slightly exceeds the .40SW ver / ~98% one shot-stops?
175 LSWC - 6.9 PP - 1089, 1247, 1171, 158, 72.69 - nice target load, albeit takes a while to clean up, even at 1100fps
175 STHP - Winchester - 1166, 1199, 1188, ES 33.19, - again, I'm not impressed with the Silvertip's boxflap vs. actual velocity
180 Berry HP - 10.1 AA7 - n/a - i'm not that crazy about Berry's for accuracy, but they are cheap and clean
180 XTP - 10.9 AA7 - 1219, 1247, 1238, 28.41, 13.19 - first warmish 10mm handload I ever made, extremely accurate and pretty hard-kicking
180 XTP - 8.5 PP - n/a
180 XTP - 8.6 PP - 1193, 1239, 1214, 46.06, 14.52 - my chosen field load, near or under book max so I can use in multple-fired cases but still warm
180 XTP - 9.0 800X - 1281, 1311, 1294, 30.11, 10.81 - nice load, however, 10.0gr load is better since I'm hand-weighing anyways
180 XTP - 10.0 800X - 1355, 1392, 1379, 36.32, 14.03 - AWESOME load, feels very snappy, can "feel" the power, I'd bet its a deer SLAYER, will play with some more
220 HC - Buffalo Bore - 1151, 1182, 1165, 31.18, 11.09 - typical BB ammo, accurate and powerful, bit of smoke, too
180 SXT Bonded - 9.3 800X - 1358, 1393, 1373, 35.67, 17.88 - FAST! wow! need to download this per results of water jug test
200 XTP - 7.4 PP - 1049, 1103, 1079, 54.28, 22.38 - not much to say, slower 200gr loading
200 XTP - 9.3 800X - 1263, 1285, 1275, 22.67, 8.1 - my CURRENT deer load, although I will probably increase charges slightly... we'll see
200 XTP - DoubleTap - 1107, 1175, 1146, 68.42, 27.96 - not impressed regarding actual vs boxflap, however, it HAS done its job on two different deer so it does work
200 WFN - DoubleTap - 1196, 1216, 1206, 20.09, 9.11 - good solid load, not as good as mine, though
200 WFN - 7.4 PP - 1089, 1105, 1098, 16.03, 6.78 - not too much to say here, either, but would work in a pinch
200 WFN - 9.0 800X - 1218, 1262, 1251, 44.61, 22 - work up part 1
200 WFN - 9.4 800X - 1292, 1334, 1310, 41.61, 21.77 - work up part 2
200 WFN - 9.7 800X - 1341, 1381, 1359, 39.5, 18.54 - work up part 3, awesome load

* NO PRESSURE SIGNS ON ANY OF THESE LOADS... except that the WFN handloads at bottom, primers are VERY slightly starting to flatten. DT load (not sure which one) had a SLIGHT increase in diameter above case web but not a bulge or smile. No bulges or splits at all on my handloads or reloads.

** DISCLAIMER: PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME ANY OF THESE LOADS ARE SAFE IN YOUR PISTOL. PLEASE USE PUBLISHED DATA AND DO YOUR OWN WORKUPS, CHECKING FOR PRESSURE SIGNS ALONG THE WAY.

I was pretty disappointed in the DoubleTap Velocities, honestly. Keep in mind, these were from a 6" barrel and were almost exactly 100fps slow on BOTH the 200gr XTP AND the 200gr WFNGC load. My own 200gr loadings outclass the DT in ALL regards and i'm not even done working those loads up. Plus, I only pay a fraction of what DT charges. (Don't get me wrong, I like DT, their products, their service and all they've done for the 10mm industry... but my handloading will surpass their loadings)

I also did a couple water jug tests, one on a 200gr XTP and another on a 180gr bonded SXT, both of which were handloads. The SXT bullet was actually one I pulled from a .40SW factory defense load and loaded into a 10mm case with a bunch of 800X under it.

CONTD....
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Old 06-01-2011, 14:54   #2
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contd

SXT Handload
The 10 Ring

The SXT basically fragged in this test. I found all of the pieces EXCEPT the lead core in the third jug and the lead core was stuck in the front wall of the fourth jug like a button on a snowman. When I go back and look at the velocity of this particular handload (1373fps avg), it kinda makes sense considering this bullet was probably designed for a nice, slow 1000fps .40SW defense load.

SXT, 'post' water-jug, top
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SXT, 'post' water-jug, bottom
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The XTP.... ahhhh that XTP.... passed this test with flying colors. Gotta love a bullet that is inexpensive, extremely accurate, holds together and penetrates AND expands at extremely high velocity. Gotta give props to Hornady on this one. I found the XTP at the bottom of the 4th jug in one piece, fully expanded, weighing 179.8 grains. VERY nice. NOTE: I killed both of my handgun deer with Doubletap's 200gr XTP. I'm guessing my own handloaded XTP will only do better on Mr Whitetail this season. They definately FEEL stouter!

XTP, 'post' water-jug, top
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XTP, 'post' water-jug, bottom
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Old 06-01-2011, 14:54   #3
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contd

Fusion and XTP, a match made in heaven
The 10 Ring

With both rounds fired into jugs, I got soaked each time. Not only were my face, hands and shirt soaked but my Fusion was soaked, too. No worries, I toweled her off and went back to shooting. I don't want any huge, nasty GASHES in my finish due to negligent drops and such but I won't baby my longslide, either.

Fusion Hunter, drenched
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In addition to the load data above, I wanted to make a few comments about my Fusion. I've fired close to 600 rounds through my Fusion Hunter and I've not had ONE SINGLE MALFUNCTION with all the bullet styles, varying case quality, different power levels, different outside temperatures or any of the six different magazines I have (three stock Mec-Gars and three Metalforms). I've fired a few factory loadings but mostly reloads and handloads. The only bauble I've had was in the first 100 rounds I had the slide come back so fast (hot load) that it beat the cartridge going up into the chamber and caught on the case about halfway down. That might have happened due to a different grip or hold... It hasn't happened since and although I could put one of the included 22 or 24lb springs into the pistol and fine-tune it more, I see no need. The 20lb spring seems right for almost all loads. The flat=bottomed factory FPS and slide mass keeps the slide speed down and the full barrel to slide lug-engagement keeps the gun accurate and tight.

Speaking of lug engagement, I've noticed a very EVEN wear pattern on my barrel's hood. Kinda neat... you can almost SEE the full engagement area.

Barrel hood, very symmetrical, even wear
The 10 Ring

Also, when I received this pistol from Fusion, I noticed that my recoil plug hadn't been Ion-Bonded like the rest of my small parts as per my order. I gave Bob Serva an email and let me know about the issue. A week or two later, he responded back saying that he needed my address to send me an ion-bonded plug in the mail. AWESOME SERVICE! I'm including a pic of both plugs side-by-side. I sure love the new plug. (I'm kind of a stickler regarding finish inconsistencies...) On top of the plug, he also included a Fusion ballcap. Nice touch!! Thanks Bob @ Fusion!!!

Non ion-bonded plug vs ion-bonded plug
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New and improved plug, barrel end-view
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Old 06-01-2011, 14:55   #4
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Hopefully you all enjoyed my little post here. I'll try to include a few pics of the shooting area and the things I see on my usual trip to the lake.

Last but not least, for this Memorial Holiday, let us thank all the members of our armed services, alive and passed, for all their sacrifices. They go meet the face of danger so that we do not have to and make our country the safe place that it is to live. Thank you all for your service to the greatest country in the world, the United States of America.

Shootin' Tree Road
The 10 Ring

Last range trip's 25 yard group...
The 10 Ring

Hungry for more bullets!!
The 10 Ring

Constant companion in the woods
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10mm is a little big for these guys so I just stay away from 'em
The 10 Ring
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Old 06-01-2011, 14:55   #5
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contd

He hates food! He sure hates that food! lol
The 10 Ring

What have YOU done for your country lately?
The 10 Ring


Stay safe.
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Why do I carry a 10mm?
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Old 06-01-2011, 15:08   #6
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Great stuff Nick. Thanks for bringing us along. That is a sweet pistol you have there.
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Old 06-01-2011, 18:30   #7
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Awesome report Nick, you've really been loading up a storm!
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Old 06-01-2011, 22:08   #8
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Nick,

Great write-up/report and pictures! That XTP bullet expanded very nicely! I'm guessing .85 plus? I think a number of us here on the Glock Talk "10" forum have come to the same conclusion as you have regarding Double Tap, in that it's definitely a quality, full power load that can be easily beat by good reloading. Double Tap is my CC ammunition and a good benchmark ammo for load development like you and others are doing here.

On that note, I'll say goodnight and will dream about taking my new S&W 610 6 1/2" out to the range.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:33   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly View Post
Nick,

Great write-up/report and pictures! That XTP bullet expanded very nicely! I'm guessing .85 plus? I think a number of us here on the Glock Talk "10" forum have come to the same conclusion as you have regarding Double Tap, in that it's definitely a quality, full power load that can be easily beat by good reloading. Double Tap is my CC ammunition and a good benchmark ammo for load development like you and others are doing here.

On that note, I'll say goodnight and will about taking my new S&W 610 6 1/2" out to the range.
Thanks guys!

I believe the XTP expanded to around .63" ... or so. Not huge, but it DID stay together and felt like it was a fantastic load.

BOOM!! lol
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011
Location: SW Missouri, Table Rock Lake, our little corner of Mark Twain National Forest
Weather: Sunny, 81F, Heat Index 86F, Humidity 50%, Pressure 30.09, Altitude ~500ft,
How many ticks did you come home with?


Quote:
Time: 10:00am
Chronograph: Shooting Chrony Beta
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 1911, ramped 6" barrel, 10mm

While visiting family over this past Memorial weekend, I got a chance to run several loads over my chrono as part of my ongoing load workups to find the perfect whitetail, general field, target and defense loads. I tested a variety of handloads, reloads, bullet styles and powder types, as well as a few factory loads.

Chrono setup


My home workbench


My hunting-load factory


My woods "work bench"

155 XTP - 9.2 PP - n/a
155 XTP - 10.0 PP - 1338, 1375, 1353, :7.24, 15.29 - nice coyote / armadillo / varmint load
165 GS - 8.5 PP - 1209, 1239, 1219, 29.97, 14.17 - nice defense load
165 GD - 11.6gr AA7 - 1252, 1310, 1292, 57.80, 23.02 - my chosen defense load - slightly exceeds the .40SW ver / ~98% one shot-stops?
175 LSWC - 6.9 PP - 1089, 1247, 1171, 158, 72.69 - nice target load, albeit takes a while to clean up, even at 1100fps
175 STHP - Winchester - 1166, 1199, 1188, ES 33.19, - again, I'm not impressed with the Silvertip's boxflap vs. actual velocity
180 Berry HP - 10.1 AA7 - n/a - i'm not that crazy about Berry's for accuracy, but they are cheap and clean
180 XTP - 10.9 AA7 - 1219, 1247, 1238, 28.41, 13.19 - first warmish 10mm handload I ever made, extremely accurate and pretty hard-kicking
180 XTP - 8.5 PP - n/a
180 XTP - 8.6 PP - 1193, 1239, 1214, 46.06, 14.52 - my chosen field load, near or under book max so I can use in multple-fired cases but still warm
180 XTP - 9.0 800X - 1281, 1311, 1294, 30.11, 10.81 - nice load, however, 10.0gr load is better since I'm hand-weighing anyways
180 XTP - 10.0 800X - 1355, 1392, 1379, 36.32, 14.03 - AWESOME load, feels very snappy, can "feel" the power, I'd bet its a deer SLAYER, will play with some more
800x is showing its charm already. When you run this load through the jugs, does it just look like a 200 only with a shorter shank left? That is a good load. I may consider loading some 180s.

Quote:
220 HC - Buffalo Bore - 1151, 1182, 1165, 31.18, 11.09 - typical BB ammo, accurate and powerful, bit of smoke, too
What does the box flap suggest on this load?
Quote:
180 SXT Bonded - 9.3 800X - 1358, 1393, 1373, 35.67, 17.88 - FAST! wow! need to download this per results of water jug test
Did you pull these out of some .40 ammo? - It does not appear to be a loading component - looking at the pics, I guess I'm sorta glad it's not.
Quote:
200 XTP - 7.4 PP - 1049, 1103, 1079, 54.28, 22.38 - not much to say, slower 200gr loading
200 XTP - 9.3 800X - 1263, 1285, 1275, 22.67, 8.1 - my CURRENT deer load, although I will probably increase charges slightly up to around 1340fps or so, we'll see
For 10 shot groups, I noted getting 1229 avg. using 9.2 and 1250 avg. (another 10 shot group showed 1242 avg.) out of 9.4 out of my 4.45" bbl. - Every 0.2gr = 15-20 fps gain. I have recently been reloading these at 9.0 grains (just about 1200 fps avg.), which I feel is a good balance for a 2nd or 3rd time loaded brass. I just noted your 180 loads above that 1 gr. difference was good for 80 fps difference - but 3 shots is a very small sample. I wonder if more samples would have confirmed 80 fps per grain on that bullet weight. There are some short range ballistic advantages with 180gr. compared to the 200gr., and it certainly may have adequate penetration for an all-around cartridge for hunting and self defense - I wonder if you can tell any difference in the recoil with 200 vs. 180?
Quote:
200 XTP - DoubleTap - 1107, 1175, 1146, 68.42, 27.96 - not impressed but it HAS done its job on two different deer
I think I got similar results on the "200gr. controlled expansion", but in the case of my testing, they were using Montana Gold bullets, which did not hold together like the xtps.
Quote:
200 WFN - DoubleTap - 1196, 1216, 1206, 20.09, 9.11 - good solid load, not as good as mine, though
200 WFN - 7.4 PP - 1089, 1105, 1098, 16.03, 6.78 - not too much to say here, either, but would work in a pinch
200 WFN - 9.0 800X - 1218, 1262, 1251, 44.61, 22 - work up part 1
200 WFN - 9.4 800X - 1292, 1334, 1310, 41.61, 21.77 - work up part 2
200 WFN - 9.7 800X - 1341, 1381, 1359, 39.5, 18.54 - work up part 3, awesome load but I will most likely increase charge to 1400fps or so, we'll see
So this means you are going to have to push that sucker over 10 gr...Suggestion: work that up in 0.2gr. increments or you may be sorry. I found 9.8 to be the absolute max on the xtp 200gr. - 10.0gr. started pushing out primers - and that was new brass. Now, I haven't tried it with regular primers (lpp - I used #350s - now I am using lpps for everything) - but still I would advise caution on that!

Quote:
* NO PRESSURE SIGNS ON ANY OF THESE LOADS... except that the WFN handloads at bottom, primers are VERY slightly starting to flatten.
Yep - watch that!
Quote:

DT load (not sure which one) had a SLIGHT increase in diameter above case web but not a bulge or smile. No bulges or splits at all on my handloads or reloads.

** DISCLAIMER: PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME ANY OF THESE LOADS ARE SAFE IN YOUR PISTOL. PLEASE USE PUBLISHED DATA AND DO YOUR OWN WORKUPS, CHECKING FOR PRESSURE SIGNS ALONG THE WAY.
Good idea. Some of these loads may just result in a case rupture on a stock glock barrel with it's typical whore-like chamber.

Quote:
I was pretty disappointed in the DoubleTap Velocities, honestly. Keep in mind, these were from a 6" barrel and were almost exactly 100fps slow on BOTH the 200gr XTP AND the 200gr WFNGC load. My own 200gr loadings outclass the DT in ALL regards and i'm not even done working those loads up. Plus, I only pay a fraction of what DT charges. (Don't get me wrong, I like DT, their products, their service and all they've done for the 10mm industry... but my handloading will surpass their loadings)
No doubt about it. Buffalo bore was more realistic in my testing - not sure about Swamp Fox, but since he's on glock talk, and we have anecdotes (include youtube videos) it's probably the real deal.

Quote:
I also did a couple water jug tests, one on a 200gr XTP and another on a 180gr bonded SXT, both of which were handloads. The SXT bullet was actually one I pulled from a .40SW factory defense load and loaded into a 10mm case with a bunch of 800X under it.

CONTD....
Aha - I thought you might have pulled those. 1k fps is all they will handle apparently, so the crown still goes to Hornady.

Thanks for the write - up. If I lived closer to Misery, oops I mean Missouri, I would like to collaborate.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:11   #11
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Quote:
How many ticks did you come home with?
Surprisingly, none! None that I know about yet, at least LOL. Last year I got one every time I stepped out the door. I will say, the cicada's are on their 13 year cycle this year, though. .. it surrrrre was noisy in them woods!

Quote:
800x is showing its charm already. When you run this load through the jugs, does it just look like a 200 only with a shorter shank left? That is a good load. I may consider loading some 180s.
I didn't run any 180XTP's through jugs ... although, in retrospect, I should have. I only had a few of the 180XTP's made up...strictly for chrono mapping. I will be playing a lot more with 180's though. Loved the feel of them. Once I get the velocities right, I'll be doing extensive accuracy testing to determine each load's use for in the field. FWIW, I think the 180's are probably going to come apart at this velocity. I don't know for SURE, just a feeling. Mainly based on the fact that its really a .40SW bullet. I could be wrong... I could be VERY wrong. Time will tell. I would assume that, if, they stay together, they would look a lot like the 200's but with a shorter shank, yes. That would be nice.

Quote:
What does the box flap suggest on this load?
Boxflap was "1200fps, 703fpe" I believe

Quote:
Did you pull these out of some .40 ammo?
Yep, pulled them from Winchester factory defense loads...

Quote:
There are some short range ballistic advantages with 180gr. compared to the 200gr., and it certainly may have adequate penetration for an all-around cartridge for hunting and self defense - I wonder if you can tell any difference in the recoil with 200 vs. 180?
Yep... short range advantages for sure. The 180gr is RIGHT at the 10mm power curve so you can drive the 180's faster, relatively speaking, than the 200's, as the 180 weight sits in the sweet spot for 10mm. Good for a bit shorter range or if penetration doesn't have to be QUITE as deep. Still, that 180gr XTP would be a bit too much penetration for SD, but of course, YMMV.

Quote:
So this means you are going to have to push that sucker over 10 gr...Suggestion: work that up in 0.2gr. increments or you may be sorry. I found 9.8 to be the absolute max on the xtp 200gr. - 10.0gr. started pushing out primers - and that was new brass. Now, I haven't tried it with regular primers (lpp - I used #350s - now I am using lpps for everything) - but still I would advise caution on that!
I wasn't sure if you were referring to the 180gr XTP or 200gr XTP. I won't go over 9.6-9.7gr on the 200XTP... but I might go up a tiny smidgin on the 180XTP ... maybe 10.2. Maybe not. Depends on the jug test result. As for the 200gr WFN loads, I will probably move my 9.7gr load up to 10.0 grains slowly. Remember, the bullet you're using has a good bearing on how high you can go. The XTP is longer and causes more drag. The WFN loads can be pushed with a TINY bit more powder than the XTP's.

Still, I have loads right now that will work... and that will work better than DT, BB or any others. I will not be in any HUGE hurry to work any of the loads up. I'm gonna concentrate a bit more on accuracy at longer range... and I'm gonna also focus on making a boatload of target stuff. Need to get to the range to do some fun shootin'

Quote:
Yep - watch that! Good idea. Some of these loads may just result in a case rupture on a stock glock barrel with it's typical whore-like chamber.
The slightly larger pressure ring was ONLY seen on DT's stuff. NONE of my handloads showed any signs of pressure on ANY of the loads... but yes. I will definitely watch closely and work up slowly. Lots of data to compare in the 800X thread here in the 10mm Reloading Forum.

Quote:
No doubt about it. Buffalo bore was more realistic in my testing - not sure about Swamp Fox, but since he's on glock talk, and we have anecdotes (include youtube videos) it's probably the real deal.
Yep
Quote:
Thanks for the write - up. If I lived closer to Misery, oops I mean Missouri, I would like to collaborate.
I hear ya and I agree!
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Why do I carry a 10mm?
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:12   #12
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Good stuff...I wish we could get someone with pressure testing equipment to run some of these 800x loads.

Hogdon? Mudrush?

1350 fps with a 200 gr. WFN is smokin! I second Keg's recommendation for caution.

Maybe I need a 6" 10mm rather then a 4" .44?

Last edited by Jitterbug; 06-02-2011 at 07:12..
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:29   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
Good stuff...I wish we could get someone with pressure testing equipment to run some of these 800x loads.

Hogdon? Mudrush?

1350 fps with a 200 gr. WFN is smokin! I second Keg's recommendation for caution.

Maybe I need a 6" 10mm rather then a 4" .44?
I agree about testing equipment. I'd love that.

1400+ has been done a number of times by people in the 10mm Reloading forum and a few other places. No substitute for my OWN careful workups but its not out of the question with that bullet.

The 6" 10mm is a mighty beast, yes.... plus, it carries better, is lighter and isn't as loud as a .44. That's the main reason I carry a 10mm over a .44...
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Old 06-08-2011, 14:25   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
Good stuff...I wish we could get someone with pressure testing equipment to run some of these 800x loads.

Hogdon? Mudrush?

1350 fps with a 200 gr. WFN is smokin! I second Keg's recommendation for caution.

Maybe I need a 6" 10mm rather then a 4" .44?
I may be able to do some sort of testing for you, But, I can tell you now
you're all over the max as far as rated pressures.

Now, I am not sure of your chamber design but, most well designed firearms have a service factor built into them that will allow you to actually use the max saami. (not glock stock barrels)

Max saami is a max average pressure. Not the absolute max allowed.

With tight/accurate charge control you can live on the edge with out seeing any issues.

But if one aspect of the config changes, you can get into trouble.

200gr wfn at 1350 with 800x, even in a 6in barrel is right on the line. No question, maybe slightly over with the 6in as pressure is still rising with 800x.

Some of the other powders wil be over at 1350.

If you setup ammo for a shorter than 6in barrel, That ammo will probably be to hot for a 6in barrel. The short barrel acts like a pressure relief/limiter.
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Old 06-08-2011, 14:37   #15
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Originally Posted by mudrush View Post
I may be able to do some sort of testing for you, But, I can tell you now
you're all over the max as far as rated pressures.

Now, I am not sure of your chamber design but, most well designed firearms have a service factor built into them that will allow you to actually use the max saami. (not glock stock barrels)

Max saami is a max average pressure. Not the absolute max allowed.

With tight/accurate charge control you can live on the edge with out seeing any issues.

But if one aspect of the config changes, you can get into trouble.

200gr wfn at 1350 with 800x, even in a 6in barrel is right on the line. No question, maybe slightly over with the 6in as pressure is still rising with 800x.

Some of the other powders wil be over at 1350.

If you setup ammo for a shorter than 6in barrel, That ammo will probably be to hot for a 6in barrel. The short barrel acts like a pressure relief/limiter.
Thank you, Mike, for your insight here. I was guessing that the WFN loads were right on the line and have since decided not to work that load up any further. For that matter, I'll probably stay where I'm at (FPS-wise) on all of these 200gr loads since the extra velocity isn't worth the pressure/risk. I'll most likely start by reducing the loads by a grain or so and working them up a bit, but this time, for accuracy rather than FPS.

There isn't a deer I know of that will take a 200gr XTP at 1250, a 200gr WFN @ 1300+ or a 180gr @ 1350fps and not fall. The nice thing about a 6" barrel is that I shouldn't HAVE to stress the pressure to get great velocities.

Thanks again, Mike
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:13   #16
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Quote:
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200gr wfn at 1350 with 800x, even in a 6in barrel is right on the line. No question, maybe slightly over with the 6in as pressure is still rising with 800x.
Could you explain this a bit more? I was under the understanding that pressure will not increase with the longer barrel but rather just affect the bullet over a LONGER period of time. ??

Quote:
Some of the other powders wil be over at 1350.
For the record, I don't go over book max with powders other than 800X
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:10   #17
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Nick

If I remember correctly you have a 5" Razorback to?

Just wondering if you've chrono'd the 200 WFN/800x through it?
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:14   #18
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Nick

If I remember correctly you have a 5" Razorback to?

Just wondering if you've chrono'd the 200 WFN/800x through it?
Jitterbug, I no longer have my Razorback. I didn't want to sell it but I basically had to. $$ issues earlier on in the year. The good news is, I really got the Razorback to hold me over until I got my longslide.... so I'm okay about it. (I have to be, anyways)

I would imagine that load would run around 30-40fps slower in a 5" gun.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:38   #19
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Sorry you had to sell it...I know the pain.

I was just looking on Gunbroker, there is a couple of the new models in the $1500 range, the velocity your getting off the 200 gr. H.C. has me re-thinking the .44.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:52   #20
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Sorry you had to sell it...I know the pain.

I was just looking on Gunbroker, there is a couple of the new models in the $1500 range, the velocity your getting off the 200 gr. H.C. has me re-thinking the .44.
Listen man... I LOVE the .44 mag... but I had to make a choice between it and another toy a while back and even had to sell my .44 revolver... but here's the deal: I don't currently hunt anything larger than deer. I hunt deer, hogs and occasionally do some varminting (coyotes, armadillo, crow and other targets of opportunity). I target shoot a lot and need a home defense pistol. I do a lot of fishing, as well, but I don't do it in bear country... If I were go go into SERIOUS bear country, I'd probably bring my 870 with short barrel and extended mag tube... full of slugs. I've had to narrow down my choices a lot. 10mm in a 6" gun is versatile enough to be a significant medium game cartridge in my favorite form factor that just happens to also fill the varmint, target, HD, carry comfort, weight and other needs. I would really like to get another .44 mag someday... but I honestly don't know what niche it will fill for me other than LARGE game, which, at this point, I have no plans to ever have the opportunity to hunt, at least until my daughter gets a little older.

If I only had a DW CBOB 10mm, a Glock 20, a DW Razorback or a Glock 29... I'd MAKE whatever I had "work" for deer and hogs. Through handloading, I think the 10mm provides PLENTY of power for medium game. It took me YEARS of wanting a 6" longslide, over a year to pay for it and over 20 weeks of build-time but I finally got it. I finally got what I consider to be the most efficient tool for what I need.... but it doesn't mean that I couldn't or wouldn't make a different 10mm work for me, as I've done before.

Ask yourself, what do you need your 10mm pistol for?
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:43   #21
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10mm Rules! IMHO

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Listen man... I LOVE the .44 mag... but I had to make a choice between it and another toy a while back and even had to sell my .44 revolver... but here's the deal: I don't currently hunt anything larger than deer. I hunt deer, hogs and occasionally do some varminting (coyotes, armadillo, crow and other targets of opportunity). I target shoot a lot and need a home defense pistol. I do a lot of fishing, as well, but I don't do it in bear country... If I were go go into SERIOUS bear country, I'd probably bring my 870 with short barrel and extended mag tube... full of slugs. I've had to narrow down my choices a lot. 10mm in a 6" gun is versatile enough to be a significant medium game cartridge in my favorite form factor that just happens to also fill the varmint, target, HD, carry comfort, weight and other needs. I would really like to get another .44 mag someday... but I honestly don't know what niche it will fill for me other than LARGE game, which, at this point, I have no plans to ever have the opportunity to hunt, at least until my daughter gets a little older.

If I only had a DW CBOB 10mm, a Glock 20, a DW Razorback or a Glock 29... I'd make it work for deer and hogs. Through handloading, I think the 10mm provides PLENTY of power for medium game. It took me YEARS of wanting a 6" longslide, over a year to pay for it and over 20 weeks of build-time but I finally got it. I finally got what I consider to be the most efficient tool for what I need.... but it doesn't mean that I couldn't or wouldn't make a different 10mm work for me, as I've done before.

Ask yourself, what do you need your 10mm pistol for?
Here here Nick! Like you, the 10mm fits my needs across the spectrum: personal defense, target shooting, varmint hunting and medium to medium large size game hunting (Here in Florida it's hogs and deer). I keep a few 9mm's and .40's around for plinking, but the 10 is pretty much always my go to guns.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:23   #22
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Awesome write-up, data, and pics, Nick!!! Thanks for all the work and sharing of load data. Once again we see Double Tap failing to perform, and with a 6" barrel. Their loads didn't hit specified velocity with an extra 1.4" of barrel length. Pitiful.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:46   #23
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Awesome write-up, data, and pics, Nick!!! Thanks for all the work and sharing of load data. Once again we see Double Tap failing to perform, and with a 6" barrel. Their loads didn't hit specified velocity with an extra 1.4" of barrel length. Pitiful.
Yep... totally agreed. DT is good, and honestly, its full power. Book max power, but not nuclear. Good stuff but the issue I have is that they ADVERTISE one thing and you GET something else.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:50   #24
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Yep... totally agreed. DT is good, and honestly, its full power. Book max power, but not nuclear. Good stuff but the issue I have is that they ADVERTISE one thing and you GET something else.
True. I have found Buffalo Bore fairly close to advertized stats and have heard good things about Swamp Fox. But, in reality, if you want REALLY good, full-power loads, you gotta pump it yourself!
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Old 06-02-2011, 13:19   #25
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True. I have found Buffalo Bore fairly close to advertized stats and have heard good things about Swamp Fox. But, in reality, if you want REALLY good, full-power loads, you gotta pump it yourself!
YEP! Btw, I've chrono'd the BB 180gr GD from my 5" Razorback and got 1380fps max and average was around 1350. Pretty damn close in my eyes.
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