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Old 07-27-2011, 07:48   #1
Aceman
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Katrina Weapon Confiscations - What really happened?

I'd like to know this. Honestly, during a Katrina SHTF - easily imaginable 200 Yards from Tampa Bay - I can't imagine that my guns would be confiscated. But I can imagine scenarios where they would be as well.

Me on my property being completely non-threatening (other than holding a weapon); No way.

Me brandishing out on the street in a public area; No surprise there.

Me on my property shooting a warning shot (or three); Perhaps.

So what really happened. As much as I am a "not worth dying for" sort of person, I don't know that if you came to my home if I'd be giving up guns in that situation.

As an LEO under orders - would you carry it out? I think I would have to SERIOUSLY question that order. It seems dangerous, foolish, and bound to cause more problems than it would solve.

So what really went down there - no 'hearsay' or speculation please....
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:23   #2
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No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.


The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:24   #3
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:03   #4
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L9Wu...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNad3...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tbp1...eature=related
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:21   #5
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Listen to these episodes of Gun Talk. Get the book,"Great New Orlean's Gun Grab".

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?...&Submit=Search
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Old 07-27-2011, 17:02   #6
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Listen to these episodes of Gun Talk. Get the book,"Great New Orlean's Gun Grab".

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?...&Submit=Search
We have many of those books for sale still. Unfortunately, we pulled the link off our website,
www.buckeyefirearms.org

PM me if your interested and we can do a paypal.
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Old 07-27-2011, 13:43   #7
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No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.


The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.
The "orders" were certainly confusing.

The results are on record.


My outline:

NOLA city government had a concern, post disaster, that firearms in abandoned houses were easy pickings for criminal elements. Many homes were abandoned due to damage and evacuation order. Into this environment, national guard troops arrived from nationwide - from states with varying restrictions on guns - which seemed to influence the rational of the decisions made by different groups. You also had an overwhelmed and possibly confused Chief of Police standing up in front of a microphone and stating that nobody will have guns, only LEO will have firearms.

This resulted in:

A house-to-house search for firearms. Some occupied homes, where the home-owners objected, experienced detainment (via handcuffs) while the premise was being searched. One 58 year old grandmother, Patricia Konie - was take-down tackled on camera after producing her firearm (in a non-threatening manner) at the request of California LEO. The take-down was shocking (even the you-tube version is edited. I remember the original broadcast) Konie was injured and force-ably removed from her home. The last I heard, her lawsuit was in legal-limbo and she no longer resided in NOLA.

There were also car searches of people evacuating the city. People were asked if there were any firearms (even packaged and stored). Confiscated items destroyed on the spot. One family reported loosing some treasured heirloom firearms this way in spite of pleading with the officers. They were smashed at curbside.

Add to this confusing mix - Blackwater was called in to help patrol the streets. They were armed - I do not know if they had just semi-auto or full auto weapons. There were reports of sporadic sniping events and at least one shoot-out with casualties on a bridge.


At the end of this, no records were kept. Collected firearms were "stored" (with the City denying their existence) until the NRA filed a lawsuit against the City of New Orleans where-as people who could prove ownership could at least attempt to recover their firearms. The percentage of recovered firearms was very low. Essentially, you had to try to find it, prove you owned it, and pass a background check. (Exact details varied as the lawsuit progressed and City / NRA arguments went back and forth with respect to court order compliance). Many firearms were destroyed by improper storage (severe rust) and some finer examples just "disappeared".


This is just scratching the surface of the story (by memory - so don't skewer me on the details). You should be able to find much more info on the event.
This book is a reference
http://www.amazon.com/Great-New-Orle...1796422&sr=8-2
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Old 07-27-2011, 13:56   #8
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See you REALLY didn't see those videos. The Posse Comitatis act of 1887 PROHIBITS using Federal troops, or those under Fed direction, of any police duties.
So you really didn't see the National Guard WORKING WITH POLICE TO CONFISCATE weapons. The Feds wouldn't ignore laws would they?
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Old 08-03-2011, 17:05   #9
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See you REALLY didn't see those videos. The Posse Comitatis act of 1887 PROHIBITS using Federal troops, or those under Fed direction, of any police duties.
So you really didn't see the National Guard WORKING WITH POLICE TO CONFISCATE weapons. The Feds wouldn't ignore laws would they?
This may have been brought up already, if so please forgive me. National Guard troops belong to the STATES, not the Feds, unless directed by presidential order. That is why it was the National Guard, not the Reserves or active duty types in their official capacity in NOLA. The State is quite authorized to mobilize their National Guard troops to assist with natural disasters and civil disturbances. Prohibitions on what Federal troops can do cannot be applied to the National Guard unless they have been ordered by the president. Now, which units where sent to NOLA by presidential order? Several states sent troops of their own volition, or at the request of LA, but I have yet hear of any that were ordered by the feds.
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Old 08-03-2011, 20:39   #10
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This may have been brought up already, if so please forgive me. National Guard troops belong to the STATES, not the Feds, unless directed by presidential order. That is why it was the National Guard, not the Reserves or active duty types in their official capacity in NOLA. The State is quite authorized to mobilize their National Guard troops to assist with natural disasters and civil disturbances. Prohibitions on what Federal troops can do cannot be applied to the National Guard unless they have been ordered by the president. Now, which units where sent to NOLA by presidential order? Several states sent troops of their own volition, or at the request of LA, but I have yet hear of any that were ordered by the feds.


Don't confuse their arguments with facts, it spoils the fun.
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Old 07-27-2011, 14:49   #11
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The "orders" were certainly confusing.

The results are on record.



Yes and no.


We know some of what happened. There are lots of things that went on, that aren't public knowledge, things that were covered up, swept under the rug, or simply never reported.


Like I said, we'll never know the whole story of what went on.

There was good, there was bad.
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Old 07-28-2011, 18:57   #12
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I would like to add that some LEO refused to confiscate firearms.

They deserve to be commended but will probably never be recognized for making a personal stand against the order.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:50   #13
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I would like to add that some LEO refused to confiscate firearms.

They deserve to be commended but will probably never be recognized for making a personal stand against the order.

I have YET to see any report of any Officers refusing the order.

What I did see was a cross section of Officers from departments around the country that DID confiscate weapons as ordered and didn't bat an eye at doing it. Maybe a couple did refuse, but the overwhelming majority didn't give it a seconds thought.

I think New Orleans and Katrina gave us a very good example of the current Law Enforcement mentality in this country. They have the same mistaken belief that "I was just following orders." gives them a free pass, as if it will give them a defense like the Nazis thought at the Nuremberg trials.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:24   #14
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Yes and no.


We know some of what happened. There are lots of things that went on, that aren't public knowledge, things that were covered up, swept under the rug, or simply never reported.


Like I said, we'll never know the whole story of what went on.

There was good, there was bad.
I don't remember any good?
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Old 07-30-2011, 20:46   #15
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The POS who made that statement finally resigned amid scandal and numerous federal probes, one of which is the Danziger Bridge case.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...oubled_ne.html

He was also the idiot who was photographed with Nagin pointing an AR at him.

I can't find a link to the story but I believe there was also a scandal b/c Reily was actually honeymooning out of town during the Katrina aftermath.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:33   #16
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I don't remember any good?

I seem to remember a whole lot of aid, search and rescue, and relief efforts. Seems all of those were good things........
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Old 07-27-2011, 22:56   #17
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...
There were reports of sporadic sniping events and at least one shoot-out with casualties on a bridge.
...
Danziger Bridge defendant told to file informal report on police shooting
Published: Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:25 PM
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...idge.html?ST=1
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:05   #18
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Danziger Bridge defendant told to file informal report on police shooting
Published: Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:25 PM
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...idge.html?ST=1


I did not realize the trial was in progress.

For the group.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...ings_defe.html


Read the testimony. I find it surprising. The officer did not distinguish a specific threat before he started firing.

He also did not check on the wounded civilians after the shooting stopped.

http://www.nola.com/news/wide/index....Bridge.pdf?825
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Old 07-27-2011, 14:37   #19
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.


The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.

+1

After what happened during Katrina, The house passed the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (The Vitter Admendment) making gun grabbing during a disaster illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitter_Amendment

The problem was there was too many Chiefs, and way too many out of state Indians, during a major SHTF event.
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Old 07-28-2011, 16:14   #20
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+1

After what happened during Katrina, The house passed the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (The Vitter Admendment) making gun grabbing during a disaster illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitter_Amendment

The problem was there was too many Chiefs, and way too many out of state Indians, during a major SHTF event.
There are local State and Federal laws stating in a bankruptcy bond holders get paid FIRST. Hussein ignored them ALL and paid unions.

There are local State and federal laws about Straw Purchases. Hussein's people ignored those.

There are local State and Federal laws about felons purchasing firearms. Hussein's people ignored those.

There are laws protecting you from being locked up without trial. 120,000 Jap/Americans can tell you how that went.

ANY LAW is just a "EXECUTIVE ORDER" away from the trash can.
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