Katrina Weapon Confiscations - What really happened?

Aceman · 07-27-2011, 07:48

I'd like to know this. Honestly, during a Katrina SHTF - easily imaginable 200 Yards from Tampa Bay - I can't imagine that my guns would be confiscated. But I can imagine scenarios where they would be as well.

Me on my property being completely non-threatening (other than holding a weapon); No way.

Me brandishing out on the street in a public area; No surprise there.

Me on my property shooting a warning shot (or three); Perhaps.

So what really happened. As much as I am a "not worth dying for" sort of person, I don't know that if you came to my home if I'd be giving up guns in that situation.

As an LEO under orders - would you carry it out? I think I would have to SERIOUSLY question that order. It seems dangerous, foolish, and bound to cause more problems than it would solve.

So what really went down there - no 'hearsay' or speculation please....

AK_Stick · 07-27-2011, 10:23

No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.

The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.

B.Reid · 07-27-2011, 10:24

FryCook · 07-27-2011, 12:03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L9Wu...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNad3...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tbp1...eature=related

UtahBen · 07-27-2011, 12:21

Listen to these episodes of Gun Talk. Get the book,"Great New Orlean's Gun Grab".

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?...&Submit=Search

squirreld · 07-27-2011, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahBen

Listen to these episodes of Gun Talk. Get the book,"Great New Orlean's Gun Grab".

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?...&Submit=Search

We have many of those books for sale still. Unfortunately, we pulled the link off our website,
www.buckeyefirearms.org

PM me if your interested and we can do a paypal.

engineer151515 · 07-27-2011, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.

The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.

The "orders" were certainly confusing.

The results are on record.

My outline:

NOLA city government had a concern, post disaster, that firearms in abandoned houses were easy pickings for criminal elements. Many homes were abandoned due to damage and evacuation order. Into this environment, national guard troops arrived from nationwide - from states with varying restrictions on guns - which seemed to influence the rational of the decisions made by different groups. You also had an overwhelmed and possibly confused Chief of Police standing up in front of a microphone and stating that nobody will have guns, only LEO will have firearms.

This resulted in:

A house-to-house search for firearms. Some occupied homes, where the home-owners objected, experienced detainment (via handcuffs) while the premise was being searched. One 58 year old grandmother, Patricia Konie - was take-down tackled on camera after producing her firearm (in a non-threatening manner) at the request of California LEO. The take-down was shocking (even the you-tube version is edited. I remember the original broadcast) Konie was injured and force-ably removed from her home. The last I heard, her lawsuit was in legal-limbo and she no longer resided in NOLA.

There were also car searches of people evacuating the city. People were asked if there were any firearms (even packaged and stored). Confiscated items destroyed on the spot. One family reported loosing some treasured heirloom firearms this way in spite of pleading with the officers. They were smashed at curbside.

Add to this confusing mix - Blackwater was called in to help patrol the streets. They were armed - I do not know if they had just semi-auto or full auto weapons. There were reports of sporadic sniping events and at least one shoot-out with casualties on a bridge.

At the end of this, no records were kept. Collected firearms were "stored" (with the City denying their existence) until the NRA filed a lawsuit against the City of New Orleans where-as people who could prove ownership could at least attempt to recover their firearms. The percentage of recovered firearms was very low. Essentially, you had to try to find it, prove you owned it, and pass a background check. (Exact details varied as the lawsuit progressed and City / NRA arguments went back and forth with respect to court order compliance). Many firearms were destroyed by improper storage (severe rust) and some finer examples just "disappeared".

This is just scratching the surface of the story (by memory - so don't skewer me on the details). You should be able to find much more info on the event.
This book is a reference
http://www.amazon.com/Great-New-Orle...1796422&sr=8-2

1 old 0311 · 07-27-2011, 13:56

See you REALLY didn't see those videos. The Posse Comitatis act of 1887 PROHIBITS using Federal troops, or those under Fed direction, of any police duties.
So you really didn't see the National Guard WORKING WITH POLICE TO CONFISCATE weapons. The Feds wouldn't ignore laws would they?

glock_40_calibe · 08-03-2011, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 old 0311

See you REALLY didn't see those videos. The Posse Comitatis act of 1887 PROHIBITS using Federal troops, or those under Fed direction, of any police duties.
So you really didn't see the National Guard WORKING WITH POLICE TO CONFISCATE weapons. The Feds wouldn't ignore laws would they?

This may have been brought up already, if so please forgive me. National Guard troops belong to the STATES, not the Feds, unless directed by presidential order. That is why it was the National Guard, not the Reserves or active duty types in their official capacity in NOLA. The State is quite authorized to mobilize their National Guard troops to assist with natural disasters and civil disturbances. Prohibitions on what Federal troops can do cannot be applied to the National Guard unless they have been ordered by the president. Now, which units where sent to NOLA by presidential order? Several states sent troops of their own volition, or at the request of LA, but I have yet hear of any that were ordered by the feds.

AK_Stick · 08-03-2011, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by glock_40_calibe

This may have been brought up already, if so please forgive me. National Guard troops belong to the STATES, not the Feds, unless directed by presidential order. That is why it was the National Guard, not the Reserves or active duty types in their official capacity in NOLA. The State is quite authorized to mobilize their National Guard troops to assist with natural disasters and civil disturbances. Prohibitions on what Federal troops can do cannot be applied to the National Guard unless they have been ordered by the president. Now, which units where sent to NOLA by presidential order? Several states sent troops of their own volition, or at the request of LA, but I have yet hear of any that were ordered by the feds.

Don't confuse their arguments with facts, it spoils the fun.

AK_Stick · 07-27-2011, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by engineer151515

The "orders" were certainly confusing.

The results are on record.

Yes and no.

We know some of what happened. There are lots of things that went on, that aren't public knowledge, things that were covered up, swept under the rug, or simply never reported.

Like I said, we'll never know the whole story of what went on.

There was good, there was bad.

engineer151515 · 07-28-2011, 18:57

I would like to add that some LEO refused to confiscate firearms.

They deserve to be commended but will probably never be recognized for making a personal stand against the order.

TreverSlyFox · 07-31-2011, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by engineer151515

I would like to add that some LEO refused to confiscate firearms.

They deserve to be commended but will probably never be recognized for making a personal stand against the order.

I have YET to see any report of any Officers refusing the order.

What I did see was a cross section of Officers from departments around the country that DID confiscate weapons as ordered and didn't bat an eye at doing it. Maybe a couple did refuse, but the overwhelming majority didn't give it a seconds thought.

I think New Orleans and Katrina gave us a very good example of the current Law Enforcement mentality in this country. They have the same mistaken belief that "I was just following orders." gives them a free pass, as if it will give them a defense like the Nazis thought at the Nuremberg trials.

Stevekozak · 07-30-2011, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Yes and no.

We know some of what happened. There are lots of things that went on, that aren't public knowledge, things that were covered up, swept under the rug, or simply never reported.

Like I said, we'll never know the whole story of what went on.

There was good, there was bad.

I don't remember any good?

certifiedfunds · 07-30-2011, 20:46

The POS who made that statement finally resigned amid scandal and numerous federal probes, one of which is the Danziger Bridge case.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...oubled_ne.html

He was also the idiot who was photographed with Nagin pointing an AR at him.

I can't find a link to the story but I believe there was also a scandal b/c Reily was actually honeymooning out of town during the Katrina aftermath.

AK_Stick · 07-31-2011, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevekozak

I don't remember any good?

I seem to remember a whole lot of aid, search and rescue, and relief efforts. Seems all of those were good things........

Syclone538 · 07-27-2011, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by engineer151515

...
There were reports of sporadic sniping events and at least one shoot-out with casualties on a bridge.
...

Danziger Bridge defendant told to file informal report on police shooting
Published: Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:25 PM
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...idge.html?ST=1

engineer151515 · 07-28-2011, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syclone538

Danziger Bridge defendant told to file informal report on police shooting
Published: Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:25 PM
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...idge.html?ST=1

I did not realize the trial was in progress.

For the group.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...ings_defe.html

Read the testimony. I find it surprising. The officer did not distinguish a specific threat before he started firing.

He also did not check on the wounded civilians after the shooting stopped.

http://www.nola.com/news/wide/index....Bridge.pdf?825

Bilbo Bagins · 07-27-2011, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

No one really knows. It was a cluster **** from the start.

The only "good" thing I can see is the public back lash that happened afterwards. I don't foresee something like that happening again unless there's a much different circumstances.

+1

After what happened during Katrina, The house passed the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (The Vitter Admendment) making gun grabbing during a disaster illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitter_Amendment

The problem was there was too many Chiefs, and way too many out of state Indians, during a major SHTF event.

1 old 0311 · 07-28-2011, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

+1

After what happened during Katrina, The house passed the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (The Vitter Admendment) making gun grabbing during a disaster illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitter_Amendment

The problem was there was too many Chiefs, and way too many out of state Indians, during a major SHTF event.

There are local State and Federal laws stating in a bankruptcy bond holders get paid FIRST. Hussein ignored them ALL and paid unions.

There are local State and federal laws about Straw Purchases. Hussein's people ignored those.

There are local State and Federal laws about felons purchasing firearms. Hussein's people ignored those.

There are laws protecting you from being locked up without trial. 120,000 Jap/Americans can tell you how that went.

ANY LAW is just a "EXECUTIVE ORDER" away from the trash can.

Markasaurus · 08-03-2011, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

+1

After what happened during Katrina, The house passed the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (The Vitter Admendment) making gun grabbing during a disaster illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitter_Amendment

The problem was there was too many Chiefs, and way too many out of state Indians, during a major SHTF event.

That is a very good link, the question is what the results will ultimately be during the next disaster of this kind.
During Katrina martial law was not even declared - there will BE a next time, and if martial law is ordered, everything Congress upholds, including the second amendment, is instantly moot.
serious - probably better off to Hide em. A large PVC pipe and a lot of grease, and a sure-fire place to bury em. guns, what guns? Do YOU see any guns?

The only way they could find them is with metal detectors, and not beyond the realm of possibility! I work in automotive and the brake rotor machine generates pounds and pounds of ferrous metal dust that i have to throw away. Get the picture? 5 pounds of iron flakes and a good rain will make the metal detector guy just think your area has too much iron in the soil. If it doesn't, he'll have absolutely no idea where to dig.

emt1581 · 08-03-2011, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markasaurus

That is a very good link, the question is what the results will ultimately be during the next disaster of this kind.
During Katrina martial law was not even declared - there will BE a next time, and if martial law is ordered, everything Congress upholds, including the second amendment, is instantly moot.
serious - probably better off to Hide em. A large PVC pipe and a lot of grease, and a sure-fire place to bury em. guns, what guns? Do YOU see any guns?

The only way they could find them is with metal detectors, and not beyond the realm of possibility! I work in automotive and the brake rotor machine generates pounds and pounds of ferrous metal dust that i have to throw away. Get the picture? 5 pounds of iron flakes and a good rain will make the metal detector guy just think your area has too much iron in the soil. If it doesn't, he'll have absolutely no idea where to dig.

Awesome idea in theory but wouldn't it ruin the soil and kill all the grass?

Plus would it really compare to a huge hunk of metal like a slide/barrel/receiver?

I just have a hard time believing LE/Mil equipment can be fooled so easily.

Thanks

-Emt1581

certifiedfunds · 08-04-2011, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markasaurus

The only way they could find them is with metal detectors, and not beyond the realm of possibility! I work in automotive and the brake rotor machine generates pounds and pounds of ferrous metal dust that i have to throw away. Get the picture? 5 pounds of iron flakes and a good rain will make the metal detector guy just think your area has too much iron in the soil. If it doesn't, he'll have absolutely no idea where to dig.

Unless you perpetrate some serious crime that brings investigators to your home with a full bag of tools to collect evidence I can't envision any circumstance that would have agents searching your soil for guns.

Imagine for a moment the manpower that would be required to do a wholesale search of even a single state in that manner.

There is a fine line between contingency planning and full out paranoia. (I'm not calling you paranoid)

emt1581 · 08-04-2011, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

Unless you perpetrate some serious crime that brings investigators to your home with a full bag of tools to collect evidence I can't envision any circumstance that would have agents searching your soil for guns.

Imagine for a moment the manpower that would be required to do a wholesale search of even a single state in that manner.

There is a fine line between contingency planning and full out paranoia. (I'm not calling you paranoid)

This is what I was thinking to sans the paranoia comment...just because you're paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.

-Emt1581

quake · 07-27-2011, 10:24

There were some home-shot videos at the time; don't know if they'd still be on youtube or anywhere available.