[ArtificialGrape]

Given that there's no shortage of passionate Sabbath threads, what is one more...

It seems that even Vic has stopped short of answering "yes", so I would like to know who believes that those who would otherwise be destined for heaven, but are mistakenly worshipping on the wrong day of the week (or perhaps the single mom that works weekends at Wal-Mart) are destined for hell.

-ArtificialGrape

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Given that there's no shortage of passionate Sabbath threads, what is one more...

It seems that even Vic has stopped short of answering "yes", so I would like to know who believes that those who would otherwise be destined for heaven, but are mistakenly worshipping on the wrong day of the week (or perhaps the single mom that works weekends at Wal-Mart) are destined for hell.

-ArtificialGrape

We are all destined for hell unless there is repentance.

Sincerity is not an excuse for faith.

God is able to overlook our "mistakes". It is willful disobedience that He will not overlook.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
17:31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

We are all destined for hell unless there is repentance.

Sincerity is not an excuse for faith.

God is able to overlook our "mistakes". It is willful disobedience that He will not overlook.

So for anybody that has now read your argument on keeping/honoring the seventh day Sabbath, if they do not change and repent, are they now in the realm of willful disobedience?

-ArtificialGrape

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

So for anybody that has now read your argument on keeping/honoring the seventh day Sabbath, if they do not change and repent, are they now in the realm of willful disobedience?

-ArtificialGrape

Why are you asking me to make that judgment?

We must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

II Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

[Brasso]

Willful disobedience. If they don't believe the 7th Day is the Sabbath then I hope their ignorance will be over looked. Just like all the commandments. But a day is coming.

Act 17:30 “Truly, then, having overlooked these times of ignorance, Elohim now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Act 17:31 because He has set a day on which He is going to judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed, having given proof of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Jer 16:19 O יהוה, my strength and my stronghold and my refuge, in the day of distress the gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers have inherited only falsehood, futility, and there is no value in them.”

Mal 4:4 “Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and judgements.
Mal 4:5 “See, I am sending you Ěliyah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of יהוה.
Mal 4:6 “And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with utter destruction.”

[ancient_serpent]

Many of my beliefs are the same as the SDA church. I go to church on Saturday, but I'm not goign to judge someone for going on another day. My belief is that God speaks to us all differently. I think there are far too many things we all have in common as Christians to maintain a focu on our differences.
I wonder if Christ would want us to sit back and judge each other, or try to go out and do good? That wasn't meant towards anyone in a negative way. I just think that if for every argument or debate about the subtle nuances between religions, the participants went out and volunteered at a homeless shelter, or visited the sick or old, we'd all be better off.

[packsaddle]

what do you care, atheist?

[Tilley]

Christ performed miracles and healed others on the Sabbath...and King David and his band of merry men broke into a temple and ate up all the bread on a Sabbath. Hmmmm...

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by Tilley

Christ performed miracles and healed others on the Sabbath...and King David and his band of merry men broke into a temple and ate up all the bread on a Sabbath. Hmmmm...

Why do people have such a poor opinion about the Sabbath?
Jesus taught that it was made for man and that it was a day to do good for others.

Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

Luke 14:3 And Jesus answering spoke unto the doctors of the law and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath?
14:4 But they were silent. And taking him he healed him and let him go.
14:5 And answering he said to them, Of which of you shall an ass or ox fall into a well, that he does not straightway pull him up on the sabbath day?
14:6 And they were not able to answer him to these things.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by packsaddle

what do you care, atheist?

Fair enough, I'm just curious as to why it is such a passionate topic when nobody (so far) has argued that it will destine somebody for hell. From what everybody is saying, in the big picture it really doesn't matter.

-ArtificialGrape

[Tilley]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Fair enough, I'm just curious as to why it is such a passionate topic when nobody (so far) has argued that it will destine somebody for hell. From what everybody is saying, in the big picture it really doesn't matter.

-ArtificialGrape

I think you are starting to feel "sour grapes" about your road to perdition and you're looking to see what partners you may have on your way to the sulfur mines...

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Tilley

I think you are starting to feel "sour grapes" about your road to perdition and you're looking to see what partners you may have on your way to the sulfur mines...

See you at the after-party, you Sunday Worshipper.

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Fair enough, I'm just curious as to why it is such a passionate topic when nobody (so far) has argued that it will destine somebody for hell. From what everybody is saying, in the big picture it really doesn't matter.

-ArtificialGrape

There is a problem with your question. You cannot honor God while you are honoring the Beast.

Would your doctor feel honored if you showed up a day late for an appointment?

The topic is passionate because there is a conflict between satan and Christ.

The fourth commandment is the only commandment that points exclusively to the Creator.

The question is honoring and trusting God or honoring and trusting man.

satan claims control of the kingdoms of this world both religious and political.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

The world by and large has taken satan up on it:

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

There is a problem with your question. You cannot honor God while you are honoring the Beast.

The topic is passionate because there is a conflict between satan and Christ.

So why won't you just come out and draw the conclusion that seems obvious from your posts... Yes, Sunday worshippers are destined for hell.

-ArtificialGrape

[juggy4711]

Not enough choices for me to vote. I need one that states: I'm not religious, God does not need or require worship and there is no such thing as heaven or hell.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by juggy4711

Not enough choices for me to vote. I need one that states: I'm not religious, God does not need or require worship and there is no such thing as heaven or hell.

The 4th option, rejecting the premise of hell, seems to apply.

[juggy4711]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

The 4th option, rejecting the premise of hell, seems to apply.

Sure but what kind of hell are you referencing there?

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by juggy4711

Sure but what kind of hell are you referencing there?

I would imagine that would be the really bad kind. You know, the kind you don't want to end up in.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by juggy4711

Sure but what kind of hell are you referencing there?

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

I would imagine that would be the really bad kind. You know, the kind you don't want to end up in.

Your choice, but like Gunhaver, I'm thinking unpleasant.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by IhRedrider

In the end, I don't think that I have the right or ability to judge anyone's actions on the Sabbath.

I guess it's a good thing that you weren't an Israelite since the instructions were to put to death anybody that works on the Sabbath.

-ArtificialGrape

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

I guess it's a good thing that you weren't an Israelite since the instructions were to put to death anybody that works on the Sabbath.

-ArtificialGrape

Not exactly anybody but there was one man that God judged:

Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

Not exactly anybody...

"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death" seems reasonably clear to me.

-ArtificialGrape

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death" seems reasonably clear to me.

-ArtificialGrape

The fact is that there is record of many persons violating the Sabbath who were not put to death. God made that judgment for one person. None of us humans are innocent.

Jeremiah 17:21 Thus said the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;
17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do you any work, but hallow you the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.
17:24 And it shall come to pass, if you diligently listen to me, said the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;
17:25 Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death" seems reasonably clear to me.

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

The fact is that there is record of many persons violating the Sabbath who were not put to death. God made that judgment for one person. None of us humans are innocent.

So God's instructions were not followed, that does not change the fact that those instructions were clear.

-ArtificialGrape

[void *]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

The fact is that there is record of many persons violating the Sabbath who were not put to death. God made that judgment for one person. None of us humans are innocent.

Is there Bible verse where God explicitly judges someone who did not follow the sabbath to not be killed, and what are they? (Seriously curious here).