[Bluestreakfl]

Was wondering if shooting steel case ammo through an AR can have any negative side affects. I see there is a huge difference in price vs brass but when something's that much cheaper, there's usually a catch. Any pros and cons of steel vs brass would be greatly appreciated.

Sent from my phone booth

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl

Was wondering if shooting steel case ammo through an AR can have any negative side affects. I see there is a huge difference in price vs brass but when something's that much cheaper, there's usually a catch. Any pros and cons of steel vs brass would be greatly appreciated.

Sent from my phone booth

Steel cases don't expand in the chamber as much as brass, allowing more fouling into the chamber. Steel cased ammo also tends to be loaded with dirtier-burning powders, compounding the problem. It won't be as noticeable if you only shoot steel case, but if you follow up with some brass cased, you are likely to have some nasty extract/eject problems.

Also, some steel cased is loaded weak, which can induce cycling problems of it's own.

IMO, it's generally not worth buying steel cased over XM193 brass cased, or other low-cost brass cased. Your mileage may vary, though.

[NCHeel]

What he said. The main reason for the price difference is brass as a metal has way more value than steel. I shoot both. Brass if I can reclaim it and steel if it is a "lost brass" range or a training class where you are shooting on the go.

[Bluestreakfl]

It would mainly be for plinking. I was looking in particular at Tula Ammo. It says it's non corrosive, but I'd imagine the cheaper stuff still contains lesser quality powder. Is it worth looking into reloading .223/5.56 or is it cheaper to just buy in bulk? I have no reloading experience yet but have considered getting into it. I'm purchasing my 1st AR, a Windham Weaponry MPC, and I want to do alot of shooting with it, while also trying to stay on a budget.


Sent from my phone booth

[bmoore]

If you invest in a 40 dollar reloading tumbler than the cost of steel case is almost a wash. Buy a case of quality brass 223/5.56, shoot it, save your brass, tumble/clean it and sell it. The money you get back on your sold brass will help out on the next case you buy. Repeat this cycle.

The stuff is horribly under powered.

[Bluestreakfl]

I saw recently at my local Walmart an ammo can, Federal 5.56 420 rounds I believe it said lake city, your saying what I'd get after firing all the rounds, polishing the leftover brass and selling it would offset the cost of the next chunk of ammo I buy?


Sent from my phone booth

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl

I saw recently at my local Walmart an ammo can, Federal 5.56 420 rounds I believe it said lake city, your saying what I'd get after firing all the rounds, polishing the leftover brass and selling it would offset the cost of the next chunk of ammo I buy?


Sent from my phone booth

It'll put a dent in the cost, but not recover it. I'm also not a fan of green tip for range use, which is what's in those 420 round cans at Wal-Mart.

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl

I saw recently at my local Walmart an ammo can, Federal 5.56 420 rounds I believe it said lake city, your saying what I'd get after firing all the rounds, polishing the leftover brass and selling it would offset the cost of the next chunk of ammo I buy?


Sent from my phone booth

Yeah. Pick up as much of your brass as you can when your done shooting. Tumble it in a reloading media tumbler, when you have about 1,000 or so saved up then sell it. Put that money towards another case of ammo. Its not going to pay for even half of another case but its better than just wasting it. Or even better, start reloading.

[smokin762]

Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl

I saw recently at my local Walmart an ammo can, Federal 5.56 420 rounds I believe it said lake city, your saying what I'd get after firing all the rounds, polishing the leftover brass and selling it would offset the cost of the next chunk of ammo I buy?


Sent from my phone booth

Yep, he is saying you can recoupe some of your money from the brass towards your next ammo purchase.

At Gun Shows, plenty of people will want to buy it. I buy once fired brass myself.

[Airhasz]

Originally Posted by smokin762

Yep, he is saying you can recoupe some of your money from the brass towards your next ammo purchase.

At Gun Shows, plenty of people will want to buy it. I buy once fired brass myself.

How can you tell it has only been fired once?
How many times can you reload the same casing?

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by Airhasz

How can you tell it has only been fired once?
How many times can you reload the same casing?

Depends on chamber tolerance's and how hot your loading your ammo.

[Airhasz]

Originally Posted by bmoore

Depends on chamber tolerance's and how hot your loading your ammo.

I'm sure I asking about your experience...

[Bluestreakfl]

Originally Posted by bmoore

Yeah. Pick up as much of your brass as you can when your done shooting. Tumble it in a reloading media tumbler, when you have about 1,000 or so saved up then sell it. Put that money towards another case of ammo. Its not going to pay for even half of another case but its better than just wasting it. Or even better, start reloading.

What would you say the average cost per round is when you reload your own? I know most folks are saying around $.32-.34 cents a round when they buy in bulk, how much cheaper is it when you reload?


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[bmoore]

Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl

What would you say the average cost per round is when you reload your own? I know most folks are saying around $.32-.34 cents a round when they buy in bulk, how much cheaper is it when you reload?


Sent from my phone booth

The last case I loaded was for around 212 dollars I think. Winchester 748 powder, Winchester primers, PMC brass cases and Hornady 55grn FMJ slugs. So long as I can snag a case of 223 at the gun show for 270 dollars (not sure how much longer that will last) its not really worth it for me to reload 223 on a single stage press. I just sell my brass and put that towards another case of ammo now.

[shotgunred]

Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl

What would you say the average cost per round is when you reload your own? I know most folks are saying around $.32-.34 cents a round when they buy in bulk, how much cheaper is it when you reload?


Sent from my phone booth

Right now it cost me 17 cents a round to reload.

[Matthew Courtney]

Originally Posted by shotgunred

Right now it cost me 17 cents a round to reload.

Could you break down that figure for us? How much value are you imputing for your time? How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?

[Airhasz]

[QUOTE=Matthew Courtney;18922045]Could you break down that figure for us? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

[Matthew Courtney]

[quote=Airhasz;18922057]

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney

Could you break down that figure for us? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

If one doesn't consider the cost of reloading equipment, their time, shop supplies, shippimg and has mat fees, ect. when calculating their $ per round, then they are not really giving a realistic #.

I reload rifle ammo for accuracy because accurate rifle ammo is over $1/round, making the margins real. I also reload .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and 10 MM because the margins are there. I enjoy reloading enough to reload between 20 and 30 thousand rounds per year, but to reload to save a penny or 3 per trigger squeeze does't wash in my cost/ benefit analysis.

Everyone should do their own analysis based on their own preferences and lifestyle, but telling folks that 5.56 can be reloaded for .17/round without some context is very misleading. To get equipment expenses/hazmat fees/shipping and other "fixed costs" down that low, one would need to order components for 30,000 rounds at a time and/or calculate the value of their time to be a negative. Both are possible and could be appropriate, but the context should be understood.

[Boxerglocker]

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney

Could you break down that figure for us? How much value are you imputing for your time? How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?

Not at all hard for people that are in the reloading aspect of shooting to believe Shotgun is loading for 17 cents a round. I routinely do the same....

Hornady 55 FMJBTs $79 a K, Powder Ramshot TAC for 4 pounds is $67 (based on 8# jug price), Wolf/Tula SRM primers $22 a K

That's $168 a K... it's actually cheaper, I was generous in the calculation. FYI, I accounted for HAZMAT and shipping for the above quoted prices (I just max a HAZMAT fee order for over 15K in primers and 35#'s of powder). Given you take into account that you use brass that you purchased as factory ammo or get it for FREE (Me and Shotgun do allot of the time, from the LEO guys at Tac rifle matches )

Shotgun and I reload on Dillon XL650's it took me about an hour to load 500 rounds of .223 tonight. The case prep using my method with a RT1200 trimmer and sizer takes me about 40 minutes for 500 cases. I won't count real time for waiting for a tumbler to clean brass but with other must do's at the bench a thousand rounds takes me conservatively 5 hours off and on during the week an half hour or hour here and there... so what? Better than staring at the boob tube, it's a side bar of the sport / hobby and it has relaxation benefits to a degree.
I shoot about 1200 rounds a month so 5-6 hours spread out during that period to load better than you can buy factory ammo and saving $$$$ really isn't all that much is it? In addition I load 2K of 9mm a month (cost on that is about $90 a K) that is much faster at about 3 hours for all 2K (minus tumbler time).
So in essence 8, lets say 10 hours over 30 days to load 1000 .223 and 2000 9mm rounds.... that's what... 20 minutes a day?
I know guys that spend that much time taking a dump everyday, so IMO your time/value argument is kind of null and void. I also know guys that spend hours every month looking for deals online for ammo and/or driving to/from Walmart to buy it.

Lastly, devaluation of equipment.... my reloading gear is mainly Dillon which isn't the cheapest, I have close to maybe $1700 invested on my reloading bench if bought new today. However,it is some of the best and even after several years of loading 1500-3000 a month. I could still easily sell it for 80% of current list price.
So my bottom line in a conservative rounds down range in component costs for one year alone...12000 rounds of .223 and 24000 of 9mm is a savings of over $4000 a year. I paid for my equipment midway through my first year alone. Everything else is gravy the way I see it.

Oh, I reload some precision .223 loads as well. That really is a more of a relaxation fun to do and chase the sub MOA game.... but you still save money regardless of how you calculate it. Plus you get the satisfaction of getting results like this.

[shotgunred]

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney

Could you break down that figure for us? How much value are you imputing for your time? How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?

How much value are you imputing for your time? none It is call an opportunity loss. Ask the IRS what that is worth.

How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? It doesn't matter. Several times a year I shoot TAC rifle with some law enforcement guys. They don't pay for or pick up their brass. So I have a steady supply of free brass.

By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment? I owned a Dillon 550 for 4 years before I upgraded to a 650. I sold my 550 for $35 dollars less than I payed for it. Dillon has a forever warranty on my 650. So I don't worry about $8 depreciation a year.
In order to make reloading 223 worth your time you have to buy in bulk. I just bought 16 pounds of powder and 10k primers at once. I buy my bullets by at least 3k at a time.

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?I keep it 5 gallon buckets no need to pick it up.

Honestly If you are not already a reloader it isn't worth it to buy all the gear just to do 223. But if you are a competition shooter shooting 20k rounds a year then it is just stupid not to be reloading. My 550 payed for itself in four months. That being said reloading only pays back well if you have the money to buy in bulk. If you don't have a spare $ 500 to $1000 to buy everything in bulk you are not going to see a big difference in cost.

[bmoore]

What I am trying to say is if you keep, clean and prep your brass you can get 75 to 90 bucks for 1,000 once fired 223/5.56 brass. Lets say a case of Federal 223 at the gun show is 270 bucks (that was at the last gun show, cant wait to see the next one). So I sell my brass for low end 70 bucks. Now I am already down to 200 bucks for a case of BRASS not steel crap ammo.

[arclight610]

Negative side effects of shooting steel case will include a fatter wallet and more gun purchases.

[Two Guns]

Just about all I shoot are steel cases.

[K. Foster]

Shooting steel won’t hurt your gun but it does increase your chances of malfuntions, which can range from minor annoyance to major pain. I shoot 100 or so rounds of steel out of my AR’s just to get an idea if they will run with it, for future reference. After that, I shoot brass.
I sell my brass for $2.00 a pound. It’s just a fraction of the cost of loaded ammo (obviously) but every bit helps. Last fall I sold almost 200 pounds. I don’t tumble or clean it.

[Cole125]

IMO, shoot the hell out of it, and just make sure to clean your gun well including cleaning the chamber well with a chamber brush.

If you shoot thousands of rounds you may wear out your extractor but we all know how easy and cheap it is to replace a AR extractor.