[Simplejack]

http://www.lasermax.com/Products/GuideRodLasers.aspx

Who would like a non pulsating guide rod laser?
Who is happy with a pulsating guide rod laser?

I would love to buy one of these guide rod lasers, but the price is way too much for what it is and what I hate the most the is the pulsating laser.. To me this is the dumbest thing they could have done to a laser system and it gives me a headache just thinking about it.
Helps you see the dot easier, but annoys the hell out of everyone who uses it? a bright red dot is not that hard to see, and if it is, why would you even buy a laser if you can't see it, and if you can't see that, you probably shouldn't be shooting.
I think there should be at least 2 models to choose from.
Pulsating and no pulsating.
Who here agrees?
Once I see wher this thread is going, I woudl like to send this topic to Lasermax so they can see what people really think of the pulsating afect they use for thier guide rod lasers.

[aaronmj]

I have the lasermax in my G27, I don't mind the pulsing...

As for the lasermax itself -
For the most part, it's reliable, I have had issues when I take the gun down to clean it and reassemble. The red cap on the end had fallen off when I put the guide rod back in - just put it back on and I was GTG, but it doesn't seem that well built (this is my second one, and yes, I had to buy the replacement).

[Simplejack]

Well almost 100 views and only one post. I don't really see this thread going anywhere close to what it was intended for..
Would be nice if I could have just made a poll as people aren't usually too shy to post a vote.

[Numismatist]

I like my LaserMax, the pulsing thing is cool. It makes it more intense. imho.

[RayB]

We have two LaserMax guide rod lasers—one in my G21 and one in my wife's G19—and we’re well pleased with them. They were purchased in 2005 and 2006 respectively, and both have proved to be accurate, durable, and dependable, over thousands of rounds fired, using all manner of ammo. The unit in my G21 does self-activate occasionally while firing, but it never fails to activate, so it’s NBD to me. The unit in my wife’s G19 has been flawless.

The laser pulses for the same reason emergency vehicle and aircraft anti-collision lights flash... The pulsing also greatly extends the battery life in a highly compact unit where battery space is at a premium.

Studies show the pulsing light is more readily picked up by the eye (we're just hardwired that way), and is far easier to pick out in a complex background. It's also more intimidating from the target's POV.

By virtue of its guide rod design, it would be very difficult to add a convenient mode switch to this model of LaserMax, and IMO, would not improve the product significantly. If you think it's too spendy now, try adding more features!

That the pulsing "bugs" you, well, that's you... Honestly, I'd suggest you best stay clear of this product.

LaserMax does offer pulse and steady modes on frame and rail mounted lasers, and as you very well know, Crimson Trace has a full line of lasers that don't pulse, so maybe one of these is better suited to you.

For me, I find the LaserMax guide rods to be the optimal laser solution for Glocks, though I have a LaserMax rail-mounted, Uni-Max-G (yes, it pulses too), that I'm happy with. I’d love to see a green guide rod laser!

You want a steady beam and I want a green beam, all from a device that fits in a guide rod! And it should be cheap too!

I tried the LaserMax Sabre, and it wasn’t suited to my large hands. That aside, I liked it a lot!

I also played with a LaserMax GENESIS, but it didn’t work well ergonomically with any weapon I own. It would be best suited to a sub-compact, except Glock doesn’t put a rail on its sub-compacts—yet!

By the bye, if you do some shopping, you can find the LaserMax guide rod lasers for well under $300.00:

http://www.lasersales.com/index.php/...07a5442b21a61d

--Ray

[Uncle Pat]

I think I've owned my last LaserMax product with the Sabre. Bought it new Feb 26th, and it croaked out less than a week and a box of rounds later. The dealer sent it off to the kind folks at LaserMax on Mar 2nd, where it's been ever since...."we'll get on it ASAP". What a crock.


That said, the one that came installed on my LCP has been a jewel so far. I'll be looking at CT for my G23 if I decide to keep one on it though.

[NDCent]

I'd like to see a LaserMax model for the subcompact Glocks like they offer for the LCP and LC9. They are inexpensive, non pulsing, and mine have held up very well.

[Simplejack]

Well the chances of having to use your gun on someone and to intimidate them with a flashy lasers doesn't really make sense. Any laser is gonna make the attacker think twice, a flashy laser isn't going to make much difference.
For the most part, I don't care if they are intimidated anyway, come at me your gonna get it no matter what colored lights I flash at you or you flash at me.
99.9% of the time your laser is going to be shot at a stationary target, I don't think paper get intimidated by flashing lights, but myself will get very annoyed. Most all other lasers seems to be constant on for a reason, but the guide rod has only one option, and that is to annoy me..
It's the only laser system I would ever want to mount to my gun, so because of this I am left with no option but to not get a laser because of some odd difference...

[Uncle Pat]

Originally Posted by NDCent

I'd like to see a LaserMax model for the subcompact Glocks like they offer for the LCP and LC9. They are inexpensive, non pulsing, and mine have held up very well.

Here's a CT version.
http://www.crimsontrace.com/products...and-subcompact

[janice6]

Of course you realize that a culminated beam from a laser is not seen by the BG unless he is in direct line with the laser. If you are the target and see the dot it means you are not looking at the guy with the gun.

Most of the time, the target will not see the laser (unless you have a fog machine) or the BG wouldn't care. He's too busy trying to shoot you.

Lasers are neat. I have worked with them all my career. They can make sighting easier in some instances. Get caught up in the dot and you have lost. They are an aid, not a solution.

Pulsing is to get your attention quickly and though you find it annoying, it is easier to spot.

[RayB]

Originally Posted by janice6

1) Of course you realize that a culminated beam from a laser is not seen by the BG unless he is in direct line with the laser. If you are the target and see the dot it means you are not looking at the guy with the gun.

2) Most of the time, the target will not see the laser (unless you have a fog machine) or the BG wouldn't care. He's too busy trying to shoot you.

3) Lasers are neat. I have worked with them all my career. They can make sighting easier in some instances. Get caught up in the dot and you have lost. They are an aid, not a solution.

4) Pulsing is to get your attention quickly and though you find it annoying, it is easier to spot.

1) Forgive me, but the two sentences that comprise this paragraph argue with themselves.

2) Fog, rain , snow, dust... But my green Uni-Max-G does project a traceable beam right back to the shooter in a dark setting, in outdoor air. I'm guessing all the green lasers do!

3) This is so true. The same can be said for sights.

In Enter The Dragon, Bruce Lee explains to his student, "It is like a finger pointing the way to the moon." The kid looks at Bruce's finger and Lee slaps the top of his head saying, "Don't keep your eye on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory!" This is apt, because you never watch the guy's hands or feet--you watch his eyes and let your trained peripheral pick up everything else. Yes, I've had training.

4) Yeah, a soothing, sleepy-time laser designator would probably be a bad idea!

With all respect to the OP, I honestly wonder if he's not mildly epileptic, as many people are. His reaction to the pulsing light goes beyond mere preference and into the realm of outright irritation. And he's hardly alone, as I've read this several times before, over the years.

--Ray

[janice6]

Originally Posted by RayB

1) Forgive me, but the two sentences that comprise this paragraph argue with themselves.

2) Fog, rain , snow, dust... But my green Uni-Max-G does project a traceable beam right back to the shooter in a dark setting, in outdoor air. I'm guessing all the green lasers do!

3) This is so true. The same can be said for sights.

In Enter The Dragon, Bruce Lee explains to his student, "It is like a finger pointing the way to the moon." The kid looks at Bruce's finger and Lee slaps the top of his head saying, "Don't keep your eye on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory!" This is apt, because you never watch the guy's hands or feet--you watch his eyes and let your trained peripheral pick up everything else. Yes, I've had training.

4) Yeah, a soothing, sleepy-time laser designator would probably be a bad idea!

With all respect to the OP, I honestly wonder if he's not mildly epileptic, as many people are. His reaction to the pulsing light goes beyond mere preference and into the realm of outright irritation. And he's hardly alone, as I've read this several times before, over the years.

--Ray

Tio re-iterate for you:

I said lasers are good pointers.

The BG is shooting at you not worrying about the laser. He is trying to kill you.

Some environments make the beams show. Many will not. You may not have the luxery of "tracking the beam" before you get shot. In a self defence distance you may not have much time to do anything but shoot. Many of us are not using rifles and in the Middle East.

I have green lasers too. Many of us have them. Congratulations.

Pulsing make the spot easier to see for the shooter. The rate doesn't bother me and I am familiar with the detrimental effects.

Now you can have your peeing contest.

[RayB]

Originally Posted by janice6

Tio re-iterate for you:

I said lasers are good pointers.

The BG is shooting at you not worrying about the laser. He is trying to kill you.

Some environments make the beams show. Many will not. You may not have the luxery of "tracking the beam" before you get shot. In a self defence distance you may not have much time to do anything but shoot. Many of us are not using rifles and in the Middle East.

I have green lasers too. Many of us have them. Congratulations.

Pulsing make the spot easier to see for the shooter. The rate doesn't bother me and I am familiar with the detrimental effects.

Now you can have your peeing contest.

You might have stated what you meant more clearly. But I understand, that's on me—not you. Nothing’s on you.

I find your response a bit odd, and frankly, a little silly too. Your antagonism is unwarranted and unnecessary. It begs the question, how many eleven year olds do we have posting here, anyway?

No wonder I ignore this particular forum for weeks on end...

--Ray

[LINKz]

Originally Posted by janice6

Tio re-iterate for you:

I said lasers are good pointers.

The BG is shooting at you not worrying about the laser. He is trying to kill you.

Some environments make the beams show. Many will not. You may not have the luxery of "tracking the beam" before you get shot. In a self defence distance you may not have much time to do anything but shoot. Many of us are not using rifles and in the Middle East.

I have green lasers too. Many of us have them. Congratulations.

Pulsing make the spot easier to see for the shooter. The rate doesn't bother me and I am familiar with the detrimental effects.

Now you can have your peeing contest.

This post makes no sense... .....
But I'll have to say that the pulsing laser makes sense to me/ 1. Increased battery life
2. Quicker visual acquisition

[janice6]

Deleted

[TSAX]

I prefer the pulsing, I pick it up better than the non pulsing. CT makes a good product, each have its advantages and disadvantages. I would not hesitate to get a CT model (they dont make a guide rod one) with no pulsing if the LaserMax wasn't available. We each have our preferences and there's just not a market for everyone of them. It would be nice to have one made just for us like a custom holster.

[strakele]

I agree with the OP. I have a pulsing Lasermax in my Beretta and Laserlyte on my Glock that has a constant on or pulse option. I much prefer the constant on.

With constant on, you know where it's pointing at every second. With pulse, you lose it for a fraction of a second every fraction of a second. I don't like it. I really don't feel like it helps me pick it up better... quite the opposite. Take a gun with a constant on laser and quickly point it at different objects in your house. Then do the same with a pulsing laser. With the constant on, you'll see the dot and a bit of trace behind it the whole time while you move your point of aim, but with the pulse, the trace will be broken up. If you're only using the laser (i.e. JUST looking for the dot and not using it in conjunction with the irons like you should be, I can't imagine it's actually faster. Try shooting a gun whose iron sights pulsate between invisible and visible a few times a second. It'd be horribly annoying.

Of course my only use is on a range though. And speaking of that, for some reason I just feel more ostentatious shooting a pulsing laser at the range.

[RayB]

Originally Posted by strakele

1) Take a gun with a constant on laser and quickly point it at different objects in your house. Then do the same with a pulsing laser. With the constant on, you'll see the dot and a bit of trace behind it the whole time while you move your point of aim, but with the pulse, the trace will be broken up.

2) If you're only using the laser (i.e. JUST looking for the dot and not using it in conjunction with the irons like you should be, I can't imagine it's actually faster. Try shooting a gun whose iron sights pulsate between invisible and visible a few times a second. It'd be horribly annoying.

3) Of course my only use is on a range though. And speaking of that, for some reason I just feel more ostentatious shooting a pulsing laser at the range.

1) That's your eye-brain creating that trace. We see as much with our brains as our eyes. For example, white and black are spectroscopic opposites, but we see bright yellow and black, or bright green or bright orange and black, as a sharper contrasts.

I guess lasers are like other sights in that people have definite preferences...

Wanna try something cool? If your cell phone has a camera, activate it and aim the camera lens at say, the front of your TV or DVD remote (the part you aim at the TV or DVD player), and push one of the function buttons on the remote, while looking in the camera viewfinder. You’ll see bright pulses of light—just as bright as any other light! Your TV and DVD remotes use an infrared LED to send coded pulses of light to the machines, telling them what to do. The infrared light from the LED is invisible to your eye-brain, but the camera sees it, and it’s just as real as the light you can see. Really, these remotes are a kind of flashlight.

2) People often make the statement that your laser should not replace your gun's sights, and I routinely point out that that's nonsense! Because that's rather the whole point of the laser, isn't it? One big advantage of a laser designator is that there's no need to sight down the barrel—you can zero your target while allowing your eyes to scan the room, etc. Crimson Trace's excellent DVD feature, Shots In The Dark, shows how a laser allows you to make accurate shots where your gun's sights would be useless—or using them would get you killed!

While I agree a pulsing gun sight would awfully distracting, they are completely different animals. Your gun's open sights are a passive targeting system, while your laser is an aggressive, active targeting system, ostensibly projecting your gun's front sight onto the target.

3) Imagine how I feel shooting my 10 mm! With a pulsing green laser! To be honest, I never gave that aspect a thought. Too many magnums sounding off to fuss over that!

I do very little range practice with the laser(s). I usually pop the OEM guide rods back in for range play, because marksmanship's where all the fun's at, anyway! A laser allows you to shoot bull's-eyes with monotonous regularity...

I do understand the sensitivity to light thingy, though. Judy and I are night people, and nearly every room lamp in our home is on a dimmer circuit, including some of the ceiling light fixtures, like over the kitchen sink, bath vanity lights, and all ceiling fan lights. I read by a 25W amber lamp, and I much prefer yellow fog lights to white! I wear yellow shooting glasses...

--Ray

[Simplejack]

I never hear anyone complain about a constant on laser sight, but there is many people who don't like the pulsating effect.

Flashing lights are annoying, constant on is good.
I know for a fact that they have lost many sales because of the flashing laser, I know this because I am one of those people and I'm sure I am not the only one.
Someday they will realize they need to make a constant on version, but I guess we all have to wait until that one person figures out that it is something that needs to be done..

[RayB]

Originally Posted by Simplejack

I never hear anyone complain about a constant on laser sight, but there is many people who don't like the pulsating effect.

Flashing lights are annoying, constant on is good.
I know for a fact that they have lost many sales because of the flashing laser, I know this because I am one of those people and I'm sure I am not the only one.
Someday they will realize they need to make a constant on version, but I guess we all have to wait until that one person figures out that it is something that needs to be done..

To wit:

The laser pulses for the same reason emergency vehicle and aircraft anti-collision lights flash... The pulsing also greatly extends the battery life in a highly compact unit where battery space is at a premium.

Studies show the pulsing light is more readily picked up by the eye (we're just hardwired that way), and is far easier to pick out in a complex background. It's also more intimidating from the target's POV.

By virtue of its guide rod design, it would be very difficult to add a convenient mode switch to this model of LaserMax, and IMO, would not improve the product significantly. If you think it's too spendy now, try adding more features!

That the pulsing "bugs" you, well, that's you... Honestly, I'd suggest you best stay clear of this product.

LaserMax does offer pulse and steady modes on frame and rail mounted lasers, and as you very well know, Crimson Trace has a full line of lasers that don't pulse, so maybe one of these is better suited to you.

For me, I find the LaserMax guide rods to be the optimal laser solution for Glocks...

I think between us, its all been said...

--Ray

[strakele]

Originally Posted by RayB

1) That's your eye-brain creating that trace. We see as much with our brains as our eyes. For example, white and black are spectroscopic opposites, but we see bright yellow and black, or bright green or bright orange and black, as a sharper contrasts.

Correct. And since my eyes and brain will be linked for the forseeable future, I prefer to use something that they best deal with.

I guess lasers are like other sights in that people have definite preferences...

Wanna try something cool? If your cell phone has a camera, activate it and aim the camera lens at say, the front of your TV or DVD remote (the part you aim at the TV or DVD player), and push one of the function buttons on the remote, while looking in the camera viewfinder. You’ll see bright pulses of light—just as bright as any other light! Your TV and DVD remotes use an infrared LED to send coded pulses of light to the machines, telling them what to do. The infrared light from the LED is invisible to your eye-brain, but the camera sees it, and it’s just as real as the light you can see. Really, these remotes are a kind of flashlight.

Correct again, but I'm not sure what this has to do with the current discussion. Cool, nonetheless.

2) People often make the statement that your laser should not replace your gun's sights, and I routinely point out that that's nonsense! Because that's rather the whole point of the laser, isn't it? One big advantage of a laser designator is that there's no need to sight down the barrel—you can zero your target while allowing your eyes to scan the room, etc. Crimson Trace's excellent DVD feature, Shots In The Dark, shows how a laser allows you to make accurate shots where your gun's sights would be useless—or using them would get you killed!

Agreed, to an extent. I think we can agree that it is still OPTIMAL to be have your gun in a position where you can still have a good sight picture. But since we don't know if that will be possible if we really have to use our guns, we choose to install a laser to augment the sights should we need it. More of a just in case kind of thing. I had a much more eloquent way of saying all this when I first read your post on my phone, but now it's late and I forgot.

While I agree a pulsing gun sight would awfully distracting, they are completely different animals. Your gun's open sights are a passive targeting system, while your laser is an aggressive, active targeting system, ostensibly projecting your gun's front sight onto the target.

3) Imagine how I feel shooting my 10 mm! With a pulsing green laser! To be honest, I never gave that aspect a thought. Too many magnums sounding off to fuss over that!

It's not a big deal, just another minor issue with a pulsating laser.

I do very little range practice with the laser(s). I usually pop the OEM guide rods back in for range play, because marksmanship's where all the fun's at, anyway! A laser allows you to shoot bull's-eyes with monotonous regularity...

I see a lot of people say stuff like this. But I feel like if you plan to use the laser on a defense/carry gun, you may as well practice with it. Otherwise with muscle memory, you'll just try to bring it up to a normal shooting stance and not really even take advantage of the laser. I also don't think you should practice 100% with the laser. Around 50/50 would be good, but I usually use the laser about 1/3 of the time to save battery...

I do understand the sensitivity to light thingy, though. Judy and I are night people, and nearly every room lamp in our home is on a dimmer circuit, including some of the ceiling light fixtures, like over the kitchen sink, bath vanity lights, and all ceiling fan lights. I read by a 25W amber lamp, and I much prefer yellow fog lights to white! I wear yellow shooting glasses...

--Ray

Also, to whoever said a bad guy wouldn't see that you have a laser pointed at them, turn the lights off, turn on your laser, set your gun down, and go stand about 10 feet in front of it and tell me you don't see that there's a big bright red light coming from you gun. Yes, a laser is highly directional, but you still darn well know it's on. I'm not talking about looking down at yourself to see the dot on you, I'm saying look at the laser on the gun and it will be very obvious.

[SiegeX]

Originally Posted by RayB

3) Imagine how I feel shooting my 10 mm! With a pulsing green laser! To be honest, I never gave that aspect a thought. Too many magnums sounding off to fuss over that!

I too have a G20/10mm and I noticed you don't shoot that with a guiderod laser even though you own a few for your other glocks in smaller calibers. Was this a decision made because you didn't have much faith in the guiderod laser surviving the kick of 10mm ammo?

[bk1951]

how good are the lasermax guide rods? are they reliable as the stock guide rods?

[Little Joe]

I have three and every one of them turns on and off while shooting when they want, not when I want. They are sitting in a box useless to me.

I like to practice with what I am going to use. So, I practice with LM and self defense ammo. They progressively became more and more erratic. I think the people who have no problems with them don't shoot with them much. They might shoot one mag of weak FMJ and then swap out the guide rod back to the stock one for the rest of their session.

It's a great idea in theory, but my 3 have not been able to stand up to even mild rigor. I've been sent springs, and replacements to no avail. One of my biggest gun purchase wastes of money.

[RayB]

Originally Posted by Little Joe

I like to practice with what I am going to use. So, I practice with LM and self defense ammo. They progressively became more and more erratic. I think the people who have no problems with them don't shoot with them much. They might shoot one mag of weak FMJ and then swap out the guide rod back to the stock one for the rest of their session.

Like I said...

"We have two LaserMax guide rod lasers—one in my G21 and one in my wife's G19—and we’re well pleased with them. They were purchased in 2005 and 2006 respectively, and both have proved to be accurate, durable, and dependable, over thousands of rounds fired, using all manner of ammo. The unit in my G21 does self-activate occasionally while firing, but it never fails to activate, so it’s NBD to me. The unit in my wife’s G19 has been flawless."

If my experience were the inverse of the above commentary, I would have said so.

Since I also take you at your word, I can only conclude that you have every reason to think that they suck. I would too, if my experience paralleled yours.

Extensive practice with the lasers is unnecessary and rather boring, once you get the knack of it—it's all trigger control. Real marksmanship is where the fun's at, at least for me, and that entails shooting with the open sights.

--Ray